Gurdjieff's topics - tribe.net

Gurdjieff & the Hidden History of the Sufis

2009-12-30T14:49:32Z

Interesting article:

http://newdawnmagazine.com.au/Article/G.I._Gurdjieff_&_the_Hidden_History_of_the_Sufis.html

"Gurdjieff came to the West as a man with a mission. He had journeyed extensively in the Caucasus, where it is thought he first entered the tekkesof the Yesevi dervishes of Sheikh Adi in the Kurdish foothills and later those of the Sarmouni in Afghanistan, receiving a number of initiations by the remarkable age of twenty two. Those closest to him maintain that he remained in touch with hidden Sufi sources throughout his life and received help and support from them. He clearly believed that he acted on their authority in setting up schools in the West that transmitted the cosmological and psychological teachings he himself had learned during his travels. Yet while freely recounting his many Central Asian adventures in his search for wisdom, Gurdjieff managed to draw a permanent veil of secrecy and ambiguity over all details of these intimate encounters with the dervish tradition. This of course is in line with the extreme reticence of the Sufi orders themselves."

posted in Gurdjieff - 12 replies

Gurdjieff-Bennett Group in Boston

2009-11-23T03:07:35Z

Work group meeting weekly in the Boston area on Tuesday evenings, with focus on the ideas and practices of G.I. Gurdjieff and J.G. Bennett. Self-observation, discussion, inner exercises and sacred dance / movements. Newcomers welcome! Movements work available to non-group members. Please contact elansicroff@campcaravan.org or george@campcaravan.org for more information.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl5f2WArJa0

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

The Sarmoung and the Yezidis

2009-10-20T13:20:36Z

Does anyone know anything about a group called the Yezidis or the Sarmoung Brotherhood? I believe the Sarmoung Brotherhood was a major topic in one of Gurdjieff's books, but does anyone know of a possible connection with the Yezidis in the mountains near Mosul Iraq? I am currently in Erbil, Iraq, about 2 hours away from Mosul, and unfortunately Didn't bring any books by or about Gurdjieff, and amazon.com doesn't seem to deliver into this area. Any help at all would be appreciated.

posted in Gurdjieff - 22 replies

VIDZ

2009-10-17T17:00:42Z

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z23tl6l_AB8&feature=related - Gurdjieff's Mission

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

Awakening

2009-10-08T05:22:02Z

August 5 is the full moon and the third eclipse in 5 weeks. This is a lunar eclipse. It is the quickening of our awakening, expanded consciousness…a life-altering, huge window of opportunity. As a time of powerful synchronicity and manifestation, I BE joy and gratitude as I sleep outside under the stars by my garden, talking to the whole universe, giving thanks as I assert what I am as the new world.
August 20 is the last of three Super New Moons in a row: empowered manifesting. I am joy and abundance. May we all shine on!
[Adapted from Rose Marcus]
Picture from www.astronet.rudbxwaremsg1199836

posted in Gurdjieff - 2 replies

Gurdjieff & de Hartmann collaboration

2009-10-05T03:38:03Z

I have been listening to this music and must highly recommend it to anyone who hasn't heard it. Incredible.

http://www.emusic.com/album/Thomas-de-Hartmann-The-Music-of-Gurdjieff-De-Hartmann-MP3-Download/11095817.html

posted in Gurdjieff - 5 replies

Gurdjieff and Mantras

2009-10-03T16:20:48Z

What'dya'reckon Gurdjieff thought about Mantras - repetitive phrases and vibratory signatures that help to focus the mind, repeated internally whilst sensing and feeling the bodies energies as a meanings of bringing together the heart, head and gut and awaken the 4th centre

There is so much claptrap about mantras these days, so I always never gave them the time of day until I studied 'under' a teacher in India and found the entire use of them to be vastly different to the shite that is romantically popularized by quasi-spiritual seeking fools

posted in Gurdjieff - 36 replies

Gurdjieff, Kundebuffer, Kundalini and the Imagination

2009-10-02T16:59:00Z

from what i understand, gurdjieff used the concept of the Kundabuffer as an organ installed into the human nervous system in past human history by higher beings out of a concern that if humans evolved at their normal pace they would learn their potential freedom too soon but not be able to attain it because of certain hindrances (the fall of man, the atlantean crisis, the corpus collosom split etc) that occured in times of crisis and this awareness of freedom simultaneous with their awareness of their limitation would be too painful for them to handle. as such they placed the organ in each human system and then removed it at a later time but the crystallisations that it caused still exist but are due for undoing.

My question is about the imagination. Gurdjieff sort of suggested that the Kundabuffer was a pleasure-causing mechanism that created a sort of imaginary yet pleasant veil over human perception to keep them satisfied but asleep.

Was he speaking about the kundalini? A lot of spiritual practices talk about the importance of activating the kundalini and see its surging current from base to crown as the spiritual journey - but G suggested that this was delusion, that the act of kundalini activation was a hallucinatory surge of energy that overacts the imagination and keeps one asleep.

So what is the imagination for you? When is it a positive thing, Neptunal dreaming force for mythic creation and when is it a floating haven for disembodied delusion?

posted in Gurdjieff - 67 replies

Gurdjieff and the Holy Guardian Angel

2009-09-21T10:07:22Z

Recently on a forum related to self-work, I kicked up some dust in a response to someone posting a thread about the Kabbalistic Holy Guardian Angel, or HGA.

Granted that the said dust may have been kicked up because of communication difficulties - I expressed my experiences and subsequent theory that the historical accounts of the HGA ("knowledge and conversation") are the result of hallucinatory, volatile-mental projections of the same quiet inner-arising that Gurdjieff simply calls Conscience.

It was Gurdjieff's opinion that only by grounding one's full awareness in the living sensations of the physical body can one awaken the 'I Am' presence effectively. This state of conscious, awakened perception was said to result from, amongst other things, significant emotional work - the goal of said work being the awakening and embodiment of Conscience, which Gurdjieff posited was the channel by which higher benevolent forces (a la the HGA metaphor) work on humanity towards harmonisation - a higher guide by which to devote the orientation of one's Will.

Whilst personally I have had experiences of what is called the HGA - encounters with images and forms of a higher self and indeed, experiences of extraterrestrial entities - it is my perspective that such experiential states are not necessary for genuine self evolution, and that in fact - as Gurdjieff often said - having such magickal experiences as a goal only increases the mind-body split and thus induces a form of psychosis.

Ultimately, the information (a sort of inner spiritual guidance) being transmitted by such experiences must be integrated into bodily awareness and thus, fixation on images and forms such as angels may inhibit this.

Theory aside - what are your experiences of a greater intelligence than your own, coaxing you towards harmonic development and evolution, how do you discern between a valid experience and the mind's dreams, and what place do you think experiential states have with the ongoing work of integrating a deeper spiritual connection to your everyday embodied life?

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

Who is or has been a student of William Patrick Patterson?

2009-07-21T23:09:34Z

I am a student of William Patrick Patterson, and have been for the past eleven years. I don’t understand the claim “Students of William Patrick Patterson” as none of the writers is or have been his students. This, in itself, should put doubt into anyone reading these posts. Let me respond succinctly.
Far from any sort of self-styled guru, William Patrick Patterson takes the role of the teacher resolutely in the manner prescribed by Gurdjieff. “Outwardly play a role, inwardly never.”
His sense of responsibility toward those he is working with is palpable. This dedication to the Work has hardly made him wealthy. And as I spent upwards of fifteen years in the publishing industry, I can say definitely that there is very little margin in books.
In his seven books, three award-winning documentaries and forty-nine advertising free issues of The Gurdjieff Journal, he has provided thought provoking perspectives and insights into the dynamic viability and applicability of the Work in the 21st century.
Dynamic being the key word. He works with a number of students in their twenties and thirties. The vitality of the Gurdjieff Work is alive and thriving in these groups; opening people to their birthright, that is, to becoming themselves.
What has been suggested or openly said in these posts is simply wrong. William Patrick Patterson’s intention is to keep the Work alive and available to those seeking.
And yes, The Gurdjieff Studies program is a means of working with people who do not live in an area where there are group meetings. I have met and worked with people who first made contact with the Work in this manner and have heard from them directly about the impact it has had in their life.
I recently browsed a catalog from Jack Kornfield’s Spirit Rock Meditation Center and his seminar fees are double those of Gurdjieff Legacy’s and Kornfield owns the center!
To conclude, the underlying assumption that William Patrick Patterson, has deviated in any manner from the “scripture” of the Work for profit or self-aggrandizement is to be genuinely ill informed in so many ways.
He is an acknowledged Gurdjieff scholar and his writing reflects that but there is more which can only be experienced when one decides to step out of their waking dream into the stream.

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

JG Ballard dies at 78

2009-04-21T17:29:36Z

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8007331.stm

http://books.google.com/books?q=j.g.%20ballard&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wp

posted in Gurdjieff - 5 replies

Yeah to the light!

2009-04-08T02:55:55Z

Yeah to the new world dancing towards us! Now all of us who are light workers have to keep Barack Obama safe by surrounding him with white light. To joy!
Dancing high to life!
Kathie

posted in Gurdjieff - 12 replies

E.J. Gold

2009-03-08T09:04:25Z

Many interestestd in Gurdjieff's ideas have strong feelings regarding this fellow. What's you're position? Read any of his books?

posted in Gurdjieff - 13 replies

Intentional suffering

2009-03-03T07:06:04Z

Does anyone have any thoughts on intentional suffering?

posted in Gurdjieff - 45 replies

'Stepping on Corns' vs Shadow Stalking

2008-12-30T23:48:38Z

Just reading Life is Real Only Then, When 'I Am' now... the prologue is very interesting. After talking about the various times he had taken bullets during his arduous journeys he talks about the struggles he went through after his car accident and the death of his mother and wife.

He says at one point the convictions he would have to make in order to get his shit together, so to speak, and one of them was a conviction that he would 'step of the corns' of those around him - meaning i think the ability to use his awareness of people's sleeping nature in order to keep his personal space and to up the notches of severity, perhaps, in order to keep people awake.

This sort of rang alarm bells in me because i have often seen this sort of practice as a form of black magic, when someone uses someone's weakness against them. In castaneda stuff, or in this book about Parallel Perception that i created a tribe for, there is a thing about the difference betwen 'Light Stalking' and 'Shadow Stalking'

I will make some quotes here for you.

"Lujan explained to me that someone with their personal power intact will be in a position to observe this process as it happens and therefore is able to make a choice at this point to either subdue or enlighten the one whose imprints are activated. He said that this is the fundamental distinction between the two types of stalking applied in the living construct: shadow stalking and light stalking.

Shadow stalking is applied to subdue another’s power by misdirecting their life force and drawing them away from their purpose. He then said that no-one can take away your personal power but they can direct your attention and draw you into areas that will absorb time and energy in matters that are not in line with your personal growth.

Light stalking is applied to align a person with their source of power and enable them to access the tools and energy needed to pursue their personal path in the way that is correct for them.

The third type of stalking involves the reordering of ones imprints within a dreaming context to allow freedom from the preoccupations that have been established in the living construct, and this gives the ability to apply multiple angles of cognitive insight in order to extract wisdom and power from those experiences which form the fundamental base plate of ones character. This is dream stalking.

Lujan warned me to be very aware of shadow stalking in the living construct as it is the basis from which the majority of people operate most of the time and presents a grave danger, in that the primary aim is to subdue purpose and waylay awareness in endless avenues of distraction and distortion. Shadow stalking identifies the imprints within ones character and once they are located establishes them as a usable base of operation."

So what you think? The relationship between severity and compassion has always intrigued me very much and I am constantly attempting to find the balance in myself

posted in Gurdjieff - 1 reply

YEARNING THE SOUL MATE

2008-12-26T03:40:14Z

YEARNING THE SOUL MATE

I saw you once
Saw you in a flash
You were the sun

Then,
The nightfall,
Moonless
Dusk

I touched you once
Touched the velvet warmth
Then
The winter
The lonesome
Sunk

I had you
Had you
Once
And
Were
You
Twice
Then
Lost you
In sea of
Mind

I reached you
Called you
Grabbed and kissed
You
- I died to you –
My heart frightened
Ran
From your
Shade

I miss you
Missed you
And will
I need you
Know you and
Call you until . . .

Shervin
October 2008

posted in Gurdjieff - 6 replies

Kesdjan Body Exercises

2008-12-14T01:39:50Z

I have recently joined a Gurdjieff Bennett group in Toronto that does the usual things like Group Meetings and Gurdjieff Movements Classes. However, they are also doing something that seems completely new to me called Kesdjan Body Exercises. These exercises are supposed to help a person develop a Kesdjan Body. Does anyone have any experience with this and if so can they tell me what to expect?

posted in Gurdjieff - 3 replies

Students of William Patrick Patterson

2008-11-16T07:51:37Z

Is it possible to make progress without the regular support of an "in-person" group?
Can correspondance courses work?
Can you trust the motives of a teacher who makes his living off of you?
Can one self-proclaimed guru really replace the Foundation as a primary source of the Work?

posted in Gurdjieff - 11 replies

Gurdjieff Life and teachings in words of Osho

2008-09-16T17:28:43Z

Gurdjieff Life and teachings in words of Osho

http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Life_of_Masters/Gurdjieff/Gurdjieff.htm

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

Books to read for a n00b

2008-08-03T20:41:24Z

Hello,

What books should I start with if I want to get into Mr. G's world?

posted in Gurdjieff - 34 replies

Nicoll's Commentaries

2008-07-13T21:37:04Z

Hello. I am trying, slowly, to work my way through Nicoll's Commentaries. Are there any discussion groups or mailing lists that focus primarily on these texts ? I am particularly interested in what I will refer to loosely as "psychological topics" - the I's, aim, attention, and so on.

Regards,
gnom

posted in Gurdjieff - 14 replies

Addicted to Suffering

2008-04-03T07:58:12Z

Gurdjieff said that one of the chief addictions of his students was suffering. How do you release this addiction coming from our Christian based culture that makes this so prevalent?

posted in Gurdjieff - 20 replies

Favorites

2008-03-29T03:28:58Z

What are your favorite books on the fourth way? I assume we can all agree that Gurdjieff's books are in their own category, so lets stick with your favorites by other authors.

Mine include "Gurdjieff: Making a New World" by Bennett, C.S. Nott's "Teachings of Gurdjieff" (with the great Beelzebub commentary by Orage), and "Struggle of the Magicians" by Patterson.

posted in Gurdjieff - 1 reply

in your eyes

2008-02-07T06:00:12Z

As I look into your eyes I rarely see you there.

You exist absently and in this is the core of all suffering.

If you are not present your existence will become a boredom.

You have yet to arrive - You have yet to be...

To become aware of this absence

Is to begin the journey towards

Transformation.

G.I. Gurdjieff
April 23, 1941

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

remember

2007-12-26T12:02:51Z

When the heaven cry , the rain never fall down only on one particular ground . . .

The dancer is here to flourish your temple
The vocalist to let you chant
The guru to get you beyond the mind
The poet to open up your heart

All of them here to make you remember . . .
your soul is celestial

You are he reason and they are the cause . . .

Every day is Christmas and each moment a new year can start, If you dare to imagine

Love,
Shervin

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

From Jan Cox' "Dialogues of Gurdieff" story: "The Ants"

2007-11-06T12:02:41Z

Hello Tribe Members.
I am looking for the story of "The Ants" as told by Gurdieff in Jan Cox' book "Dialogues of Gurdieff".
I have the book in a Dutch version but need the English version of the story.
If you have a copy of this tale, can you please send a copy to my e-mail address?
I use a lot of Sufi teaching tales in our Community-based Eco-village Study circle and I think this tale is one of the most powerful.
Besides "The Ants", if any of you have a good teaching story, I will be grateful if you could forward it to me.
Many Thanks.
Rev. Maryse Anand
maryseanand@gmail.com

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

Gurdjieff related blogs

2007-09-27T14:02:14Z

Here are a couple that I check regularly:

http://kesdjan.blogspot.com
http://digitalseance.wordpress.com
http://zenyogagurdjieff.blogspot.com

If you have any you like post 'em!

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

Jan Cox

2007-08-24T04:09:30Z

Jan Cox american mystic and the author of "Magnus Machina", "The Dialogs of Gurdjieff" and "The Death of Gurdjieff in the Foothills of Georgia" died last Saturday.

For those interested in learning more, you can visit http://www.jancox.com

posted in Gurdjieff - 59 replies

International Review

2007-08-01T16:58:58Z

http://www.gurdjieff.org/index.en.htm

This may have been posted here before. Probably has. I was just checking it out and thought I'd post it here just for the hell of it in case anyone here hasnt.

Cheers!
M

posted in Gurdjieff - 2 replies

Gurdjieff Conspiracy

2007-07-20T02:11:31Z

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Gurdjieff+conspiracy

Googled. : )

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

safir *

2007-07-19T22:07:57Z

Safir
Send me
a Sign

There is a hymn in me
Don’t know How to sing it

There is destiny
Not found the courage to follow yet

There is a master,
mastery
My shadow hides it from me

There is a man of light within,
without not know how to face it

Oh the sun and the moon
The see and the holly mountain
Send me a Safir
A messenger
A sign

love,
Shervin
2007

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

Two Wings

2007-07-04T21:37:33Z

Two Wings

Forgive me,
I am searching,
Forgive my desperation
It is the pain of separation

This is the song of my life story
The longing of sing is the mystery

Any one who is been in pain
Look for people to hear his rhyme
Each dark cloud is a hidden blossom
If only there is a willing earth to let its rain

Thee art thunder,
Says the master,
Thee shall turn
Shout the caster

All signs and symbols hide two wings
The Two made The One
So became beauty the beings

The One fulfilling my mind,
The Two embracing my heart,
The doubt is without,
within is all sight

I see the light
and I hear the sigh
forgot the rhythm
but know the hymn
don’t know the way
but reckon,
this side

Past is present
And present is the past
My story is a history
The tale went so fast

Pain and doubts and fears
Tears and tenderness and treasures
All will leave
What remain are the wings
and the wishes
The dreams, memories
and the moves
The need to fly,

The Angelic desire
to become destroyed
by dust of illuminated light
up on light

Shervin
July 2007

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

Ichazo vs. Gurdjieff

2007-06-22T20:12:53Z

Here in this overly verbose article, Oscar Ichazo rips a new asshole for Mr. Gurdjieff, or, at least Mr. Gurdjieff's followers. I could never get through it by way of the sheer force of its wordiness, but, if you have patience, hang on long enough where Ichazo brilliantly traces the real sources of Gurdjieff's teachings.

http://www.arica.org/articles/trletter.cfm

Then, have at it!

posted in Gurdjieff - 3 replies

where are thee?

2007-06-10T21:32:15Z

Oh my body where are thee?

The ways death,
The thoughts silent,
The empathy hearts
The fall became us

Behind the shiny show
Beyond the strong men
The burly gorillas
The speedy speakers
The tough guys
And the happy girls
Beyond this lively market
Is the street of death

A macabre silence within this noisy faire

My body where are thee?
That I don’t recognize my materialization of me
My body where are thee?
That I don’t understand this appearance
nor his manners

Not this manifestation
Not this mental chain

My soul where are thee?
What happened to the eminent song?
Where went the echo of our mantras?

My lyrics where are thee?
What happen to our poems?
Why did verses left?
How did we become so much human, so less beings?

“Thou Art God”
In that dead body
In the deepest hole of that tired heart
Hide a whisper
a young existents

If the light would shine
If the clouds would cry
If the revelation
Would come into sight
The whisper will become a lyric
The lyric
Will find a sound
And the sound would craft a form
And will shape
US
Oh my body where are thee?
Oh my soul where are thee?
Oh my verses where are thee?

Shervin

June 2007

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

Barefoot in the Head

2007-06-03T07:48:58Z

http://www.amazon.com/Barefoot-Head-Brian-Wilson-Aldiss/dp/0755100662

Anyone know this book?

posted in Gurdjieff - 1 reply

Rich Magicians

2007-06-03T07:46:36Z

In the book "In search for the Miraculous" In the middle of a chapter O discusses the text below a reference to the forces which keep man hypnotically asleep:

"First of all it must be realized that the sleep in which man exists is not normal but hypnotic sleep. Man is hypnotized and this hypnotic state is continually maintained and strengthened in him. One would think that there are forces for whom it is useful and profitable to keep man in a hypnotic state and prevent him from seeing the truth and understanding in his position."

"There is an Eastern tale which speaks about a very rich magician who had a great many sheep. But at the same time this magician was very mean. He did not want to hire shepherds, nor did he want to erect a fence about the pasture where his sheep were grazing. The sheep consequently often wandered into the forest, fell into ravines, and so on, above all they ran away, for they knew the magician wanted their flesh and skins and this they did not like."

"At last the magician found a remedy. He hypnotized his sheep and suggested to them first of all that they were immortal and that no harm was being done to them when they were skinned, that, on the contrary, it would be very good for them and even pleasant; secondly he suggested that the magician was a good master who loved his flock so much that he was ready to do anything in the world for them; and in the third place, he suggested to them that if anything at all were going to happen to them it was not going to happen just then, at any rate not that day, and therefore they had no need to think about it. Further the magician suggested to his sheep that they were not sheep at all; to some of them that they were not sheep at all; to some of them he suggested that they were lions, to others that they were eagles, to others that they were men, and to others that they were magicians."

"And after this all his cares and worries about the sheep came to an end. They never ran away again but quietly awaited the time when the magician would require their flesh and skins."

"This tale is a very good illustration of man's position."
--page 219

There are other writings/authors that discuss a similar "force" attributed to some kind of usurping of our energy through hypnosis by a "higher being" . Castaneda speaks about this in his Don Juan book, in the chapter about the "Mud Shadows" and the flyers. Gnostics have spoken about this entity as the "Archon" .
Historically , there are stories documented in ancient Sumerian and Mesopotamia about the Annunaki; some of which can be read in the work Zacharia Sitchin which potentially can draw

While reading "In Search of the miraculous", I found these paragraphs about the eastern tale In the beginning of a chapter that does not build anything upon what this "Tale" implies. Without going deeply into other "conspiracy theories" which linger on the internet, I have been searching for any further commentary on this idea that seems analogous to O, Castaneda, and Gnostic ideas with out success.

I'd love to hear opinions / references from others in this forum to this statement.

posted in Gurdjieff - 13 replies

Group Work

2007-05-30T04:14:53Z

So. . .what groups have you worked with? What have been the most productive in terms of growth?

In the "fourth way" tradition, I have worked with several groups. One, a very small group under the auspices of Chalice Circle, was the most fruitful for me. The woman who faciliated this group, Edith Wallace (who passed a few years ago) was perhaps the most "awake" individual I've ever met. I have also worked with the G. Foundation and a few others.

How about you? What was the first group and what induced you to work with others?

posted in Gurdjieff - 6 replies

one night

2007-05-29T21:28:30Z

Celestial Bodies

One night
Dark
And silent
The conversation of hands
And the dialogue of bodies

I close my eyes
A glimpse of light arise from within
The perfume of your presence fulfill my bedroom

One night
Silk soft
Tender
And
Tough
The motion
We dance
Curves and circles
Merging us
On our lightened path

Passionate night
Sweats
Tiers
Liquids
Rain
A
Juicy night

My arms
Are boneless storms
They surround you
Your
Legs,
Like
Roots of
A young
Hungry
Three,
They hold
They push
My grounds
Toward you

The test of cherry are your lips
The thirst of a desert t savage mines

The alchemy of love, by night
Revelation of
The celestial us
Through burning light of midnight

One Night.

Love,
Shervin

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

meetings with remarkable men

2007-05-06T04:11:38Z

has anyone seen this movie? http://imdb.com/title/tt0079542/

if so, would you recommend it?

posted in Gurdjieff - 10 replies

Peace as an ego need.

2007-04-03T18:44:37Z

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxWZc1cRLnA

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

passerby

2007-04-01T22:03:25Z

You were just another passerby

But there was something in the gaze,
In the eyes
Or was it the perfume,
The sign,
The presence?

It made me whisper.
My secret name
I whispered in your ear
. . .

You,
The stranger,
Kept walking from me
No looking back
No truing head
No mimic reflections
Or signs of wondering

But the name was strong
And it was burning

It got to you
Like a flame to
The Fresh Flesh
Like a honeybee to
A very
Fertile Rose

The name engraved itself
Deep in the labyrinth
Of your rich
Underconsciousness

Now,
Driven by the unbearable power of the secret name,
You came back

To
Me

Now
The revelation of the underconsciousness is declared

To
You

I can pass
But you can’t be a passerby,
No more

Shervin
April 2007

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

"Gurdjieff's offspring?"

2007-04-01T04:48:37Z

I have now come across references to Mr. G's offspring twice in a single day. In another post on this forum I found the assertion "...Michel de Salzmann (Gurdjieff's son) continued the head the Foundation..." (sic) - Posted by Jolie.
I'd be interested to know where the evidence is to be found for this statement - ie that M. de S. was Gurdjieff's son.

On another site I encountered the phrase "Gurdjieff's children". Perhaps someone would care to enumerate them and possibly even venture to suggest why their existence would have been so well concealed until the invention of the internet.

Or are we perhaps dealing with metaphor here?

posted in Gurdjieff - 10 replies

Pema Chodron tells a Gurdjieff story.

2007-03-29T19:32:24Z

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7qFi52FX1Q

posted in Gurdjieff - 2 replies

G. in the Light of Tradition

2007-03-28T07:30:40Z

Anybody here read Whitnall Perry's "Gurdjieff in the Light of Tradition"? Anybody else dissapointed? I was hoping to read a good critical book attempting to demonstrate that Gurdjieff's ideas are not a "traditional" teaching (at least not from the Traditionalist perspective as taught by Rene Guenon or his cronies). Granted the book make some interesting points but Perry's argument is summed up by his final question:

"In order to situate Gurdjieff and his movement, the one and only question the seeker has to resolve is whether or not God is omnipotent. If the answer is in the affirmative, then Gurdjieff and his hosts are doomed."

The one and only question? God's omnipotence? This guy really needs to read Korzybski's "Science & Sanity" and realize that it is not correct to say that god "is" or that god "is not" omnipotent. My understanding, based on quite a few years of Sufism, is that "god" neither "is" NOR "is not".

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

new day

2007-03-26T01:02:39Z

new day

spring
birds are back
nature
flourishing

Yet,
No songs in my heart

The seed is sleeping
still
The light
stay
hidden
The Messenger
is
not here
yet

I raise my hands to you
to heaven
and push my feet deep in to the ground
My Lord
My Lady

I close my eyes
And let the dreams surround me
I leave the conscious sorrow
looking in to the deeper pain

I kneel
put my forehead
on the cold ground
I smell the small flowers
fighting their way up

I pray
for a final surrender

love&respect
Shervin

posted in Gurdjieff - 1 reply

something is missing

2007-03-24T01:56:33Z

In this world

Something is missing
Something is so wrong
Did we forget?
Did we ever know it
in our Time?

Our shops are full
Our hearts are empty
Our stomach is exhausted
Our soul sleep deep

Something is missing,
- I am telling you -
Something went wrong
There is this deep, deep hole in our mind

Take a look at faces
They’re frozen
The wealth didn’t brought joy
The bread doesn't still the hunger no more
Now the temple of faith is destroyd

Something is missing
Something is just wrong
- Boy -
I am – badly - longing
to sing a different song

posted in Gurdjieff - 1 reply

William Patrick Patterson on Gurdjieff video

2007-03-16T17:44:02Z

The Making of the Gurdjieff Trilogy

An Interview with William Patrick Patterson

http://www.gurdjieff-legacy.org/40articles/making_trilogy.htm
_____

WE INTERVIEWED WILLIAM PATRICK PATTERSON DURING HIS nationwide speaking
tour introducing Gurdjieff‚s Legacy, the concluding installment of his
video trilogy.

The Gurdjieff Journal: Viewing the sheer scale of the video trilogy of
Gurdjieff‚s life and teaching˜one that is shot on-site in Egypt, Russia,
Turkey, France, London and America˜is truly a monumental experience.
Just how long has it taken to complete the trilogy The Life and
Significance of George Ivanovitch Gurdjieff?

William Patrick Patterson: A few lifetimes or a few seconds depending on
one‚s perspective. We began shooting the first video, Gurdjieff in
Egypt, December 1996; finished Gurdjieff‚s Mission in 2002; and
completed the third video of the trilogy, Gurdjieff‚s Legacy, in
February 2003.

TGJ: Where did the idea come from to do a video?

WPP: I was on my way to a meeting in Israel and decided to make a
stopover in Egypt.

I‚d never been much interested in Egypt, believing, as most people do,
that Western civilization began with the Greeks. But seeing the Sphinx,
the Great Pyramid and then going up the Nile to Thebes, modern-day
Luxor, and seeing the Temple of Man, Karnak and the Valley of the Kings
... well, I stood in awe of the immense scale, intelligence and deep
esoteric understanding that once existed.

TGJ: What impressed you the most?

WPP: The whole of it. So to continue ... when I returned to America I
reread the chapter in Meetings with Remarkable Men where Mr. Gurdjieff
sees the map of pre-sand Egypt. I‚d been reading that book for decades
and never asked myself the obvious question: what did he see on the map?

TGJ: Why not?

WPP: The obvious is often what is most hidden. Anyway, Gurdjieff doesn‚t
say directly but later gives the answer about what he saw when he says
he had been "spending all my free time walking among these places [the
Giza Plateau outside Cairo] like one possessed, hoping to find, with the
help of my map of pre-sand Egypt, an explanation of the Sphinx and of
certain other monuments of antiquity." Remember now that he is in search
of the origin of esoteric knowledge and believes it to be the Sarmoung
Brotherhood, which existed in Babylon about 2,500 B.C.E. But in coming
upon the map of pre-sand Egypt he immediately breaks off his search and
goes where?˜to the Giza Plateau.

TGJ: But why would he need an "explanation of the Sphinx"?

WPP: Exactly. The Rosetta Stone had been discovered and deciphered in
the 1820s and every Egyptologist of that day (as well as most of this
day) believed the Sphinx dated from the time of the Great Pyramid, about
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2,750 B.C.E. So why does Gurdjieff need an "explanation"? Well, because
that is what he saw on the map!

TGJ: Couldn‚t he have seen something else?

WPP: What else? The Sphinx is the primordial symbol of esoteric
knowledge.

TGJ: Pre-sand Egypt. What are we talking about in terms of time?

WPP: The time was 7,500 B.C.E. and before. That was when Egypt was
green. Later I came upon a video by John Anthony West, a member of the
Gurdjieff Society in England, who believes that the Sphinx dated from
pre-sand Egypt. He had read Sacred Science by René Schwaller de Lubicz,
the great hermetic Egyptologist, in which de Lubicz says that the
erosion we see on the Sphinx is not caused by wind or sand but water.
West has done a lot of pioneering and innovative work with geologists to
establish the true date of the Sphinx and is still carrying on the
struggle.

TGJ: With this insight why didn‚t you write a book rather than do a
video?

WPP: I‚ve written a number of books so that would not be a challenge.
More importantly, I believe, as never before, we need to build bridges
to young people, and young people seem to be more influenced by video
and film than books. Then, too, I have groups and groups need projects
and what better project to jump into than something none of us knew
anything about.

TGJ: Did you plan a trilogy from the outset?

WPP: No, not at all. Creating a video was a many faceted project. Our
aim was to meet professional standards so that what we did technically
would not take away from the tremendous and unrecognized story we had to
tell of Gurdjieff‚s search in Egypt and Abyssinia.

TGJ: Unrecognized?

WPP: Yes, most people believe that the origin of the Fourth Way was in
Central Asia˜basically Sufi or dervish. Either that or Russian Orthodox
Christianity.

TGJ: Why is that?

WPP: Let‚s get into that later. So, as I was saying, we just hoped we
could complete the first video˜we had no idea of doing a trilogy. But
then on completing Gurdjieff in Egypt it just seemed right and necessary
to tell the entire story.

TGJ: Necessary? Most people know the story don‚t they?

WPP: To some extent. But I believe the emphasis has been ...

TGJ: Wrong?

WPP: The film of Meetings with Remarkable Men, as beautiful and
compelling as it is in many sections, gave only a part of Gurdjieff‚s
life. James Webb‚s biography of Gurdjieff shows prodigious research but
is fanciful at times and biased throughout. James Moore‚s biography is
much better, but I find his vision conventional and limited and the
language too self-referential.

TGJ: What about Bennett‚s Making a New World?

WPP: This is his best book in my opinion. But he believes the origin of
the teaching is Sufi. He, like Ouspensky, has had a significant
influence on framing the public view of the teaching. Just as Ouspensky
believed the teaching was fragmentary˜his view was based solely on the
Russian period of the teaching, and when presented with Gurdjieff‚s
Legominism he thought it was rubbish˜Bennett, too, never seems to have
realized what Gurdjieff says in Search, that "The teaching whose theory
is here being set out is completely self-supporting and independent of
other spiritual lines and it has been completely unknown up to the
present time." The emphasis is mine.

TGJ: You lost me.

WPP: Bennett was introduced to the teaching three times. In
Constantinople in 1921. At the Prieuré in 1923. And in Paris in 1948.
From what Bennett reports in Witness, Gurdjieff had high hopes of
Bennett spreading and carrying on the teaching. Instead, Bennett hopped
from the Work to Subud to Catholicism to Idries Shah to Hinduism and
then into some eclectic combination of all these which he taught and
called the Fourth Way. His actions show he never realized that "the
teaching . . . is completely self-supporting and independent of other
spiritual lines."

TGJ: You mean he shouldn‚t have kept searching?

WPP: Like a good many people who enter the Work, he didn‚t realize the
search was over. He had found what he had been searching for. Some
people, you know, are perennial seekers. They "collect" teachings and
teachers but remain aloof, uncommitted. It‚s one form of what I call
esoteric egoism.

TGJ: Let me see if I understand what you‚re saying. Namely, that
Ouspensky‚s and Bennett‚s views have largely framed the
teaching˜Ouspensky in terms of it being fragmentary and Bennett because
he believes it is derivative in origin˜mainly Sufi. Right?

WPP: That‚s good enough for now.

TGJ: So what is your viewpoint?

WPP: Let me first just clear up another strand of thought. In Search
when Gurdjieff is asked "What is the relation of the teaching to
Christianity as we know it?" Gurdjieff replies: "I don‚t know what you
know about Christianity"˜Ouspensky puts the word in italics, noting that
Gurdjieff emphasized the word. This indicates that Gurdjieff is speaking
of a special form of Christianity. "It would be necessary," he says, "to
talk a great deal and to talk for a long time in order to make clear
what you understand by this term. But for the benefit of those who know
already, I will say that, if you like, this is esoteric Christianity."
What does that tell you?

TGJ: That the Work is esoteric Christianity.

WPP: That‚s what it told Boris Mouravieff and his latter-day follower
Robin Amis. But Gurdjieff is not referring to the Christianity we
know˜but the Christianity we don‚t know.

As he says later in Search, "It will seem strange to many people when I
say that this prehistoric Egypt was Christian many thousands of years
before the birth of Christ, that is to say, that its religion was
composed of the same principles and ideas that constitute true
Christianity." So the esoteric Christianity Gurdjieff is referring to is
a Christianity that existed before the birth of Christ and before the
ancient Egyptian religion as we know it˜that is, a prehistoric
Christianity.

TGJ: That really is a revolutionary statement.

WPP: Yes. And what it means is that the Fourth Way predates all the
religions we know. Thinking in a linear way, just because Gurdjieff
introduced the teaching in St. Petersburg in 1912, people have thought
that Sufism, the Cabala, and so forth have all predated the Fourth Way.
But it‚s just the reverse. As Gurdjieff says, we see the world
topsy-turvy. We go into all this in detail in Gurdjieff in Egypt.

TGJ: Was there any overriding structure you followed?

WPP: The trilogy runs on three tracks. The first is the historical, the
second is the people in Gurdjieff‚s life, and the third is the major
tenets of the teaching.

TGJ: So the trilogy tells the history of the Work, as well as giving the
major aspects of the teaching?

WPP: Yes, but the history and its interpretation differ at points from
what is conventionally presumed.

TGJ: What do you mean by that?

WPP: Many of Gurdjieff‚s students who wrote about him, and certainly all
of his critics, speak from their point of view. Everyone levels him to
fit their ideas and beliefs. No one speaks of his mission˜that he came
to give humanity a teaching that would save it from destroying itself.
Everyone seems to unconsciously think he came to awaken and liberate
them. I wanted to give the point of view that is rarely
recognized˜Gurdjieff‚s.

TGJ: Isn‚t that a bit presumptuous?

WPP: Of course. And his view can‚t really be known. But by carefully
considering his mission, what he says and how he lived, I think we can
shine a needed light on his life and teaching and clear up some
misconceptions.

TGJ: How so?

WPP: Once he rediscovered the fundamental ideas and principles of the
teaching in Upper Egypt and Abyssinia he realized that over time
elements of the teaching had drifted northward. So he made a series of
journeys to the Hindu Kush, Siberia and Tibet to collect these elements.
He then reformulated the teaching for modern times and brought it to the
West. As mentioned previously, the teaching, paradoxically, is as old as
it is new.

TGJ: Why did he want to bring the teaching to the West? Why didn‚t he
just stay where he was and introduce the teaching there?

WPP: He realized that humanity was approaching a crucial shock point in
its history. As he says, "Unless the Œwisdom‚ of the East and the
Œenergy‚ of the West are harnessed and used harmoniously the world will
destroy itself."

TGJ: That sounds ominous.

WPP: Yes, but who took that warning seriously? Now, given 9/11, it‚s a
different world, no? He saw that the West was where the power was. So in
1911 he took a 21-year vow to live an artificial life in order to
introduce and establish the teaching in the West. The second video of
the trilogy, Gurdjieff‚s Mission, begins with his coming to St.
Petersburg in 1912, then to Moscow, on to Constantinople, France,
England and America. We followed his path, shooting all the way.

TGJ: Why did he go to St. Petersburg?

WPP: I assume because it was the most cosmopolitan city in Russia, right
on the edge of Europe. He was fluent in Russian, knew the customs and
had friends there. His plan was to form groups, then establish the
Institute for the Harmonious Development of Man, train
helper-instructors who would disseminate the teaching to the major
capitals of the world. He had brought with him a million rubles, two
collections of Chinese cloisonné and many rare carpets.

TGJ: Why so much money?

WPP: As he says in Meetings, he wanted to be dependent on no one. But
let me continue. The plan was on schedule until 1917 and the shock of
the Russian Revolution. It drove him to Tiflis in the Caucasus where he
tried to again set up the Institute. But the uncertainty of the times
and governmental red tape made it impossible. So he left for
Constantinople where he again opened and closed the Institute˜the city
was flooded with refugees and a secular movement was coming to the fore.
Now what to do?

TGJ: Why didn‚t he go to Greece? He was part Greek, knew the language
and so forth?

WPP: The power that will determine the fate of the world lies in Europe
and America. So, though he didn‚t speak the languages, know the customs,
had no friends and little money˜his million Russian rubles were
virtually worthless˜Gurdjieff stepped off into the future. In 1921, he
left for Europe and a year later opened his Institute in France.

TGJ: When you shot in Russia and Constantinople did you come upon
anything interesting in terms of the Work?

WPP: In St. Petersburg we found the street˜Pushkin Street˜where
Gurdjieff lived, the apartment on Liteiny Street where Ouspensky lived
and The Stray Dog café, a haunt of Ouspensky and the intelligentsia and
the art world. It was closed by authorities in 1915 and had just
reopened several months before we arrived.

TGJ: What about the restaurant where Thomas de Hartmann met Gurdjieff?

WPP: Yes, we found that but it‚s a gambling casino now, so we didn‚t
shoot it. In Constantinople we stayed in the Pera district, the European
quarter, and found Yemenici Street and the townhouse where Gurdjieff set
up the Institute. Of course we shot that, as well as the Galata Bridge,
the street life and the train station from which Gurdjieff left for
Europe.

TGJ: You say a second track of the videos is Gurdjieff‚s students.

WPP: Yes, we show the real reasons why Ouspensky left Gurdjieff. They
were not the ones he speaks of in Search. And we follow their
relationship through the years from Ouspensky‚s final break with him in
1924, the final meeting in 1931, and then what befell Ouspensky at the
end of his life. We shot at his estates˜Lyne Place in England and
Mendham in America˜and his grave site.

TGJ: What about Orage?

WPP: This was a much more intricate relationship. Jesse Dwight played a
larger part than is generally thought. In short, Orage wanted his woman
and the teaching, too. Also, Gurdjieff put a lot of pressure on him in
terms of money. Orage never seemed to realize˜at least he never
said˜that Gurdjieff used money as a teaching device. Gurdjieff saw how
fixated Westerners are about "making dollars" and used it. Remember, he
came to Russia with a million rubles, all of which he had earned
himself. Obviously, he didn‚t want money to be a factor.

TGJ: Going back to the origin of the teaching for a moment ... what‚s
the proof that the teaching comes from prehistoric Egypt?

WPP: No proof other than what Gurdjieff says. Do we believe him or not?
If we don‚t, why are we following someone who we don‚t believe? I could
speak for a long time on all the facts that point to the origin of the
Fourth Way being in prehistoric Egypt, but let me just say this: the
question is what came first˜sacred science or religion? If you go to the
Temple of Edfu, about 30 miles up the Nile from Thebes, you find that
its walls, which date back to the Pyramid Age, speak of Seven Sages who
came from the Homeland of the Primeval Ones, an island that sank during
a catastrophic flood. The Seven Sages introduced a high civilization and
religion to Egypt. This is a perfect match with what Gurdjieff says in
the First Series. If we look at Egyptian religion, which I hold sprang
from the Fourth Way, we see its focus was on Being and
self-transformation and immortality. The Egyptians believed you have to
make a soul and there was no differentiation between the spiritual and
the not spiritual. All was spiritual, especially if there was
self-remembering.

TGJ: But the Egyptian religion devolved into animal worship, didn‚t it?

WPP: Yes. Originally, animals were chosen to depict certain attributes
of Being. But then, as you say, it devolved. That was why when Judaism
occurred about 1,100 B.C.E., they banned all images. And Judaism doesn‚t
believe in an afterlife. But then, over time, it rigidified into some
500-plus laws that dictated all human behavior. And, of course, they had
the idea of "the chosen people." As Gurdjieff said, "Moses told them
that, not God."

TGJ: Christianity believes in an afterlife.

WPP: Yes, and so does Islam. In the past, as Gurdjieff said, real
religion consisted of two parts. One part taught what is to be
done˜that‚s the exterior part. And the other part taught how to do what
the first part teaches˜that‚s the esoteric part. When the esoteric part
is lost then religion devolves as it unfortunately has today. It becomes
all words, prohibitions and self-calming, which then rigidifies into
orthodoxy and fundamentalism.

TGJ: That seems to be what we see today.

WPP: Exactly. Religion, in my opinion, is on its deathbed. After the
current quagmire in the Middle East ends people will ask what was the
root cause of the conflict. The answer will be fundamentalism˜Christian,
Jewish, Moslem. With that the new world belief becomes scientific
materialism.

TGJ: Isn‚t it already here?

WPP: The foundations are already in place. A general de facto
declaration is just awaiting the demise of modern religions.

TGJ: What will happen to the Work?

WPP: In my view it can easily make the transition because it‚s a sacred
science. It can accept much of scientific materialism and be accepted by
it. Most important, it can provide the necessary scale and the teaching
and practices to move beyond a strict and limited scientific worldview.

TGJ: What will it take for that to happen?

WPP: Whether the Work makes the transition depends on how it responds
and positions itself. That is the impetus for the trilogy. Gurdjieff
bequeathed to us a great legacy in terms of his Legominism All and
Everything, his music, movements and sacred dances, and exercises. It‚s
for us to commit ourselves to it, make it live. That‚s the point of the
third video Gurdjieff‚s Legacy.

TGJ: Well, that‚s a lot to think about.

WPP: Yes, to ponder.

TGJ: Is this the first trilogy ever done on Gurdjieff and the teaching?

WPP: Yes, Gurdjieff in Egypt is the first video ever made about his
search. And Gurdjieff‚s Mission and Gurdjieff‚s Legacy are the first to
cover the rest of his life. So the trilogy is a perfect complement to
the film, Meetings.

TGJ: What else do you consider important?

WPP: What is important is that the trilogy is a Work project of seven
years duration. We didn‚t do it as a commercial venture. It was our
tribute to Mr. Gurdjieff and his teaching.

TGJ: Well, as a Work project it was certainly better than digging a
ditch.

WPP: No, not at all. To act with intention and not for any personal
reward but for our Being is the one real value. The making of a trilogy
was simply more demanding and complex and ran into years, not hours.

TGJ: Were you surprised that each of the videos won a Gold Award at
WorldFest?

WPP: Absolutely! That each won a Gold Award at such a prestigious
international film festival was more than any of us conceived. And that
the last two videos won Gold Special Jury Awards for Outstanding
Excellence ... well, for that one has to have a great deal of help, and
we did.

TGJ: What kind of help?

WPP: What number Man do you take Mr. Gurdjieff to be?

_____

If the ideas and perspectives you've found in this article are of
interest, please subscribe to The Gurdjieff Journal. We promise you four
lively, provocative issues of the only international journal devoted to
exploring self-transformation in the contemporary world and the teaching
of G. I. Gurdjieff. The Gurdjieff Journal publishes interviews, book
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readership.

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Information

posted in Gurdjieff - 22 replies

BuddhaHill Sacred Dances

2007-03-08T14:01:01Z

Based on the teachings of G.I. Gurdjieff, a new creation of the Sacred Dances is trained and performed at BuddhaHill.
This method is especially designed to observe our physical level of functioning.
And through observation, we will come to know more about our magnificent bio-machine called "body". From very simple exercises to Sacred Dances, which are made of absolutely unusual body movement, we come to the here and now. Then self-observation and meditation happen.
Sacred Dance is a unique method to create an inner harmony and to experience a No-Mind state . . . pure presence.

Lalla (leader of the Sacred Dance Training at BuddhaHill)

Photos on the sacred Dances you find in ChaMeera's photos

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

The First Way

2007-03-02T01:22:47Z

You are sparkling!

I am loving receiving information about the first way.

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

Nimbus & Creation Story Verbatim

2007-02-22T18:27:54Z

Anybody read either of these?

posted in Gurdjieff - 3 replies

Quest

2007-02-11T07:25:31Z

Hello friends...me sw.veet vedam an osho sannyasin....having a long time thirst to participate in Gurdjieff group but unfortunately i cldn't find in Southern India which was my birth place. Now iam living in Malaysia...cld anybody know any groups happening here?. I wld be happy to know and will participate.

posted in Gurdjieff - 4 replies

Slave

2007-01-29T12:38:17Z

Somebody whispered,
“Beware, she wants you on your knees!”
I whispered back:
“On my knees I whish to serve my Lady”

Someone shouted at me:
“You, poor slave of her beauty!”
I shouted back:
“Poor, so she can feed me with her mature fertility;
slave, so she can mark my body,
with signs of her sensuality”

The other day a passerby asked:
“Where does this never ending ecstasy come from?”
I answered:
“She is the ocean and I thirst her countlessly”

with love and respect
January 2007
Shervin

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

Does the Fourth Way Exist

2007-01-29T04:54:35Z

The question of whether the Work begun by Gurdjieff in context of his teachings about the Fourth Way and the schools associated with it is fundamental for all 'seekers' who find their way to his teachings and then to the remnants of Gurdjieff's influence- the various Gurdjieff Foundations and Institutes, the Fourth Way Groups and Teachers and the countless material available which examines the subject of Gurdjieff's teachings.

Gurdjieff tells us that a Fourth Way School is never without some work of a definite significance, is never without some undertaking around which and in connection with which it can alone exist. What was Gurdjieff's undertaking? He gathered a group of many people scattered over the globe and worked with them to develop higher being bodies- Kesdjan and Martfotai, and to carry on in the future as prepared Helper Instructors which he stated would be required with the publishing of his writings in context of the interest they would generate also in the future. He develeoped a legonomism of words, movements, music, records of meetings and worked to make sure that all would survive into the future for a certain time intact. Gurdjieff himself said that when he had finished his writings in the form that he wished then his work would be over and he could die a contented man.

It is fairly obvious that G's particular school of the fourth way finished upon, or at least a short time after, his death and the completion of his lifes work.

Schools of the fourth way exist for the needs of the work which is being carried out in connection with the proposed undertaking. They never exist by themselves as schools for the purpose of education and instruction.

What has the Work become fifty years later but a school or set of institutions for the purpose of education and instruction. They instruct on the teachings, pass on the various exercises, the movements, the music and Gurdjieff's writings and the "archives of the league" to quote a phrase used before. What is the difference between the Work now and, for example, the various Foundations dedicated to Buddha and so on, except that the Work's inception was only a mere few decades ago

"The work itself of schools of the fourth way can have very many forms
and many meanings. In the midst of the ordinary conditions of life the
only chance a man has of finding a 'way' is in the possibility of
meeting with the beginning of work of this kind. But the chance of
meeting with such work as well as the possibility of profiting by this
chance depends upon many circumstances and conditions."

Imagine a meteor falling in space towards a planet and then hitting it. The effects will be felt for many years even thousands of years later, but the comet only hits once and what it hits it hits directly- all else is after-effects eventually becoming a myth or legend. Gurdjieff was a meteor (and perhaps he came with a group of other meteors), a messenger from above, he made impact with the earth, touched directly all those who were near enough and the rest is the residue of this 'occasion'.

"The quicker a man grasps the aim of the work which is being executed,
the quicker can he become useful to it and the more will he be able to
get from it for himself."

"But no matter what the fundamental aim of the work is, the schools
continue to exist only while this work is going on. When the work is
done the schools close. The people who began the work leave the stage.
Those who have learned from them what was possible to learn and have
reached the possibility of continuing on the way independently begin
in one form or another their own personal work."

And what can they get, and of what does this personal work deal with? What else but the journey towards immortality, the Sacred Martfotai. To be able to become a "meteor" themselves.

"But it happens sometimes that when the school closes a number of
people are left who were round about the work, who saw the outward
aspect of it, and saw the whole of the work in this outward aspect."

"Having no doubts whatever of themselves or in the correctness of
their conclusions and understanding they decide to continue the work.
To continue this work they form new schools, teach people what they
have themselves learned, and give them the same promises that they
themselves received. All this naturally can only be outward imitation.
But when we look back on history it is almost impossible for us to
distinguish where the real ends and where the imitation begins.
Strictly speaking almost everything we know about various kinds of
occult, masonic, and alchemical schools refers to such imitation. We
know practically nothing about real schools excepting the results of
their work and even that only if we are able to distinguish the
results of real work from counterfeits and imitations."

And here we are, the exact description of the future of the Work, fifty years later. All this is Law Conformable,ie. to be expected.

"But such pseudoesoteric systems also play their part in the work and
activities of esoteric circles. Namely, they are the intermediaries
between humanity which is entirely immersed in the materialistic life
and schools which are interested in the education of a certain number
of people, as much for the purposes of their own existences as for the
purposes of the work of a cosmic character which they may be carrying
out. The very idea of esotericism, the idea of initiation, reaches
people in most cases through pseudoesoteric systems and schools; and
if there were not these pseudoesoteric schools the vast majority of
humanity would have no possibility whatever of hearing and learning of
the existence of anything greater than life because the truth in its
pure form would be inaccessible for them. By reason of the many
characteristics of man's being, particularly of the contemporary
being, truth can only come to people in the form of a lie. only in
this form are they able to accept it; only in this form are they able
to digest and assimilate it. Truth undefiled would be, for them,
indigestible food."

So, we come to the only function the Fourth Way Work has at this time and into the future- a Question, a sign towards something perhaps more real. Like A UFO in the sky it points to another reality: or a crop circle. Symbols of Mystery and Search. Like the Pyramids which offer no teaching except the one that says, "I am Here and You are Here, still. You cannot understand me, Know me or create me-- all you can do is realize your nothingness in the face of me."

"Besides, a grain of truth in an unaltered form is sometimes found in
pseudoesoteric movements, in church religions, in occult and
theosophical schools. It may be preserved in their writings, their
rituals, their traditions, their conceptions of the hierarchy, their
dogmas, and their rules."

But what good is a Grain of truth? Who could make use of such a quantity except someone who already Knew a great deal, and how does one come to Know a great deal except through C influence? What is the purpose of this grain if there is C influence except when the C influence has departed or one has returned alone. Gurdjieff teaches that the crystalization of the Higher bodies including Kesdjan can only come through conscious work and that schools are needed for this and and that C influence is needed. Kesdjan must return to life to fullfil the promise of Martfotai, but in the meantime the School has left, hence the requirement for these grains and a legonomism, for these artifacts of rememberance?

" Esoteric schools, that is, not pseudoesoteric schools, which perhaps
exist in some countries of the East, are difficult to find because
they exist there in the guise of ordinary monasteries and temples.
Tibetan monasteries are usually built in the form of four concentric
circles or four concentric courts divided by high walls. Indian
temples, especially those in Southern India, are built on the same
plan but in the form of squares, one contained within the other.
Worshipers usually have access to the first outer court, and
sometimes, as an exception, persons of another religion and Europeans;
access to the second court is for people of a certain caste only or
for those having special permission; access to the third court is only
for persons belonging to the temple; and access to the fourth is only
for Brahmins and priests. Organizations of this kind which with minor
variations, are everywhere in existence, enable esoteric schools to
exist without being recognized. Out of dozens of monasteries one is a
school. But how is it to be recognized? If you get inside it you will
only be inside the first court; to the second court only pupils have
access. But this you do not know, you are told they belong to a
special caste. As regards the third and fourth courts you cannot even
know anything about them. And you can, in fact, observe the same order
in all temples and until you are told you cannot distinguish an
esoteric temple or monastery from an ordinary one."

how many lives are required to enter these Inner temples?

"The idea of initiation. which reaches us through pseudoesoteric
systems, is also transmitted to us in a completely wrong form. The
legends concerning the outward rites of initiation have been created
out of the scraps of information we possess in regard to the ancient
Mysteries. The Mysteries represented a special kind of way in which,
side by side with a difficult and prolonged period of study,
theatrical representations of a special kind were given which depicted
in allegorical forms the whole path of the evolution of man and the
world."

" Transitions from one level of being to another were marked by
ceremonies of presentation of a special kind, that is, initiation. But
a change of being cannot be brought about by any rites. Rites can only
mark an accomplished transition. And it is only in pseudoesoteric
systems in which there is nothing else except these rites, that they
begin to attribute to the rites an independent meaning. It is supposed
that a rite, in being transformed into a sacrament, transmits or
communicates certain forces."

posted in Gurdjieff - 20 replies

Gurdjieff

2007-01-15T00:49:26Z

He must have been a great man.
What did he say?...a "real man" must become an actor. That is some deep shit!

posted in Gurdjieff - 2 replies

Holidays

2006-12-04T12:55:22Z

Pure speculations are sometimes fun...
So, lately I have been thinking about G and holidays. My own ideas on holidays are morphing and swirling at this time. What was his view on them? How did he treat them? Did he celebrate any specific holidays? If so, how did he do it? Did he celebrate the holidays for his students, did he use them as a tool, did he use them as an excuse to drink Armagnac? I am sure, as in everything, there was a purpose. What have you read or learned that would give insight into this speculation?

Sat Chit Ananda~
Turiya

posted in Gurdjieff - 1 reply

Robert Burton and the 'Fellowship of Friends' aka 'Apollo' - it is a dangerous cult to be avoided at all costs, NOT a 4th Way School at all!

2006-12-01T19:14:51Z

Award-winning Yuba County winery also serves as a cult
Sacramento Bee/August 17, 2002
By Stefanie Frith

Oregon House, Calif. -- Tucked away in the Yuba County countryside lies a winery that produces award-winning wines that have been served at a birthday party for Ronald Reagan and at numerous restaurants, such as the Ritz-Carlton in San Francisco.

Admirers of the Renaissance Winery and Vineyards praise its ability to make what one critic called wines that "belong in every cellar" in the sometimes cold, sometimes brutally hot climate of Oregon House, where no other winery operates. But Renaissance, part of a community called the Fellowship of Friends, has problems beyond growing grapes.

Called a cult by ex-members, neighbors and cult experts, the Fellowship has fought with county officials over taxes and been sued by former members. That, wine sellers said, makes it hard for Renaissance to promote its wines, because part of the art of selling wine means playing up a winery's history.

Renaissance's story, however, is "too bizarre," said Wilfred Wong, a San Francisco-based wine buyer. "While their quality is good, there are a lot of other wines out there and I just don't want to work with a winery that has all that excess baggage."

Winery officials, who agreed only to a telephone interview and would not speak about the Fellowship, said they are trying to drop that "baggage" by experimenting with new wines and new labels.

With 365 acres of vines in a 1,300-acre compound called Apollo that covers the rocky hillsides of the Sierra foothills as well as the plateaus below, it has been a challenge learning which grapes grow best in the rugged terrain, said Tim Quartly-Watson, general manager of Renaissance Winery and Vineyards.

"We are still learning and we are going to be learning 100 years from now," said Quartly-Watson, a Fellowship member who moved from England to California six years ago.

Renaissance produces 25,000 cases of wine a year, part of what a winery brochure calls its "art of living ... and labor of love."

With about 2,000 members, one third of which live in or near Apollo, the Fellowship follows the Fourth Way tradition of spiritual development that was developed by turn-of-the-century Russian philosophers George Gurdjieff and P.D. Ouspensky, said Steven Hassan, a Boston-based cult expert who has counseled former members of the Fellowship. The Fourth Way teaches that humans are asleep and can only wake up through a series of extreme exercises and observations that break down the old personality and develop a higher consciousness.

Apollo was designed to aid this process. It was started in 1974 by former Bay Area elementary school teacher Robert Burton, a follower of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky. They have their own school, restaurant, cemetery and museum, insulating them from the rest of Yuba County, a mostly rural area about 90 minutes north of Sacramento.

They are virtually unknown to their neighbors in Oregon House, a community of about 2,000 people hidden among thick trees and narrow roads. The winery sticks out in this area of mobile homes, deserted shacks and old pickup trucks, its entrance protected by a guard and lined with potted palm trees.

"They are unlike you and me," said Sandy Gaggero, a retiree who lives near the winery, one of the few neighbors who were willing to speak about the Fellowship. "They are low key and are almost brain-dead. They are really on another level. It's a cult. They don't make decisions for themselves."

Yuba County officials have had disputes with the Fellowship, said county tax assessor David Brown. The group once sued the county unsuccessfully to get a tax exemption for its museum. They have also claimed they were a nonprofit organization, but the county proved them wrong and denied that request as well, Brown said.

Until recently, the Fellowship also owed the county about $2 million in taxes, but they are currently on a payment plan to pay it back, said county supervisor Hal Stocker.

Former members have sued Burton, claiming brainwashing and even sexual abuse, according to court records. In 1996, a former member sued for $5 million, claiming Burton had sexually exploited him at age 17. That suit was settled months later.

The suit claimed the Fellowship was being used to further Burton's "voracious appetite for perverted sexual pleasure and elegant lifestyle." Burton is portrayed as a leader who considers himself "an angel in a man's body" who communicates with up to 44 angels, including Benjamin Franklin and is second in spiritual power only to Jesus Christ, said former members and experts.

Part of the Fellowship's appeal, Hassan said, is that it presents an illusion of intellectuality to those who believe that Gurdjieff was an enlightened being.

"Many people who he entranced thought he was incredible and magnetic and started their own groups, like Burton," said Hassan. "And I have yet to find (a group) that is healthy."

Renaissance officials dispute the characterization of their community as a cult. "We are a cultivated winery, Quartly-Watson said.

Matt Kramer, a columnist for Wine Spectator magazine and author of "Making Sense of California Wine," said he admires the winery's courage in taking on the difficult microclimate. He called the Cabernet Sauvignon and Riesling "very promising" and great deals for the price.

"They are still feeling out what grows best in that microclimate," said Kramer. "How long it will take them to become fully revealed is unknown."

At San Francisco's Ritz-Carlton, wine director Stephane Lacroix has been serving Renaissance's Cabernet 1996 at $10 a glass for three years. He said it has good balance and a fresh finish.

"There is value and quality and I never took into consideration anything else about them," Lacroix said. "They are quite professional people who are serious about making quality wine."

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

any one read any Henry Corbin?

2006-11-30T16:44:18Z

His work is adding up to a serious Revelation in my thought and spiritual Work.

Henry Corbin (1903-1978) was a famous French
philosopher, professor of philosophy at Sorbonne
University, and orientalist.

Corbin spent most of his life in Iran and other Middle
East countries. For more than 25 years he researched
and scrutinized the Islamic world, especially Islamic
Philosophy, Sufism, and Shi'a beliefs. His main
achievement was the introduction of Mulla Sadra and
Suhrawardi to the West. One of his masterpieces is
History of Islamic Philosophy.

Corbin was the first to translate Heidegger into
French, publishing a collection of texts under the
title "Qu’est ce que la Métaphysique?" (1938). His
work on the Iranian Ismaili theosophical tradition
relies heavily on German hermeneutics.

He had a close relation with both Allameh Tabatabaei
and Professor Seyyed Hossein Nasr.

His book The Man of Light in Iranian Sufism ISBN
0-930872-48-7 continues to be one of the greatest
expositions of classical Persian Sufism available to a
western audience.

[edit] Bibliography

* Creative Imagination in the Sufism of Ibn 'Arabi
* The Man of Light in Iranian Sufism
* Spiritual Body and Celestial Earth
* En islam iranien, 4 volumes, Gallimard: Paris,
1974.
* History of Islamic Philosophy
* Cyclical Time and Ismaili Gnosis Kegan Paul,
London, 1983.
* The Voyage and the Messengner: Iran and
Philosophy (Contains previously unpublished articles
from 1948-76). North Atlantic Books, Berkley,
California, 1998.

posted in Gurdjieff - 2 replies

please help

2006-11-25T08:36:45Z

Dear all,

For the past year I have been involved with a group that teaches the ideas of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky . Never have they named either of these men by name, and only Once have they told the class that we are a part of the Fourth way. We are told that we are not allowed to use the internet or go searching around the internet or in bookstores about work Ideas.

I have found a great path of self development learning about the ideas of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky from this group (even though they never mention any this ). I only have found out that about these men through my internet searches, as well as finding about this tribes.net group.

I am in a very deep problem at the moment. I am increasingly finding that the ideas of the fourth way and Gurdjieff's teaching are independent to that of this school, and the people who run it.

In case you are more interested to know about this school , It operates in the north eastern USA, and you can read all about it here:

http://www.rickross.com/reference/theater/theater21.html

http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/o/odyssey/open_letter.htm

http://www.rickross.com/reference/theater/theater18.html

The above three links encompass many of the internal "I"s in me which due to my experiences as of late have become increasingly conflictive ( which I am using to work on myself most definitely! ) . I have learned a great deal from the Fourth way, and Intend to continue my personal development under these ideas.

I have learned alot about myself, and the universe in this school .. yet I there still is a conflict in me preventing me from sharing more of myself with this group ... as it seems as if they prey on vulnerabilities in very good people .

I've been reading many posts in this group over the past few weeks, and I must say I have a great deal of respect for you all. This is why I ask for your help.

After reading above, ( and possibly reading the website links ) ... do you feel the above exemplifies the characteristics of a real Fourth way school?

Thank you greatly for your thoughts.

posted in Gurdjieff - 28 replies

Anyone read "Views form the Real World"?

2006-11-20T11:09:18Z

Good book.

posted in Gurdjieff - 8 replies

has anyone read all four volumes of J.G. Bennett's "Dramatic Universe"?

2006-11-20T00:58:05Z

comments?

posted in Gurdjieff - 17 replies

Artist uses Gurdjieff for inspiration

2006-11-19T20:08:28Z

Photos of the artists work http://www.fridaynotes.com/controlcenter.htm

Review of the exhibit http://www.brooklynrail.org/2006-10/artseen/timothy-marvel-hull

posted in Gurdjieff - 1 reply

diagram of every living thing

2006-09-29T12:44:09Z

i'm struggling with the relationship between the enneagram and the diagram of every living thing...and how both of these give tangible clues as to where to apply shocks to intensify vibrations...
does anyone have any ideas on this?

posted in Gurdjieff - 9 replies

Humor and imagination, are these lacking in The Work ? If so, why ?

2006-09-14T10:31:01Z

Though I have no firsthand experience of G.I. Gurdjieff the man almost all whom I have met in person, either in groups dedicated to Gurdjieff's work or are working alone, seem to lack a sense of humor and imagination. If I were to generalize, I'd say their spirituality was of a somber cast. I have heard many stories of Gurdjieff's trickster humor and also have read in many Gurdjieff book sources that "imagination" was something to outgrow, ignore or somehow transcend.

Anyone have any thoughts on this ?

posted in Gurdjieff - 12 replies

Weights & measures

2006-08-15T02:37:46Z

In the city, 8 gallons minus 2 gallons must always equal 6 gallons; measurements regarding the physical activities necessary for it to function, but concerning its intangible activities which gives the city its sense of having an existence distinct and separate from its physical ones, it has no such stable valuations; whatever, at any moment, the city part of the mind says is true about itself, is so, even should it violate the rationale it employs in all its other assessments.

In the mind's inner-only, other-reality no one knows the volume of a gallon,
nor weight of a pound;
the only info in there regarding the things in there has to do with such matters as:
about the psychological causes of aggression, and the length of god's beard.

In the open spaces outside the city's collectively controlled areas of the mind, thoughts are not squandered on spurious evaluations of trolls, thoughts, fairies or words: a man who knows is like a scientist smart enough not to try to measure the wind with the wind (more precisely: measure dreams of wind with but other breezy dreams).

© 2003: JAN COX

posted in Gurdjieff - 4 replies

Did ya ever wonder?

2006-08-14T08:02:02Z

To believe that you can escape from a certain place, you must first believe that you are in that place: this is an early circumstance from which many who are initially interested in the life of the mental rebel never extricate themselves; they know they are not satisfied with where they are (non physically speaking) but a most difficult to realize viscidity of the situation is that they also do not know where they presently are, and moreover -- are unable to recognize that they do not; they do not like where they are internally, they do not know where they are internally, but they are made to say that they do, thus effectively barring them from ever realizing that they do not know: a recipe for a routine life for a normal man, but one of frustration caused by ignorance for a few.

Perhaps the toughest trick in the independent magician's bag is to ever privately realize that whatever it is that so bothers you ---- you do not know what it is. At some early time in your interest in the revolutionist's life you read, and accepted someone else's telling of what the bothersome thing is -- everyone does ---- there is no other way to get started in this elusive affair, but to ever progress beyond the introductory stage, somehow, someday a clear fact must suddenly leap into the face of your consciousness, the fact that you personally have no idea what it is that has for near the length of your entire memory made you feel restless and wanting to do something -- or experience something that seems not available or possible, where you inwardly are now.

This recognition is the first great release; your thinking is liberated from a captivity that you not only did not realize, but which in fact, you had been taking to be part of an escape plan.

The sudden apprehension of this ignorance is, for the certain man, a most joyous and memorable day; he can then begin to actually reconnoiter his inner world, the first step toward the full realization of what is going on in the life of man.

posted in Gurdjieff - 2 replies

Snap out of It

2006-08-11T15:13:07Z

"One man had a hamster in a running wheel -- which he sometimes mistook for his mind -- and whenever he'd catch himself doing this, he'd shake his head and say: "Hey! -- snap out of it!'" and the hamster would say: "Hey -- who are you talking to?" -- and there in a shutnell is the rebel's challenge: who -- in his own head -- is he talking and listening to -- who?!

The answer to that is the answer to everything."

posted in Gurdjieff - 3 replies

Wanna know what i think?

2006-08-04T14:43:30Z

One man says: "Wanna know what I think? -- I think that no one knows what is going on, but ordinary people pretend that they do, and the only difference between them and someone who does know is that they do not pretend that they do. (Is that what you guys call, neat?")

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

Movements...

2006-05-29T17:00:25Z

I would like to find out more information on the movements; Videos, presentations, do the use live music, etc..

Thanks,
~Donavon

posted in Gurdjieff - 9 replies

Alarms, clues and reminders

2006-05-26T01:36:07Z

Hi there!
Anybody out there interested in discussion of paractical aspects of the work? I am relatively new to 4th way so I am more interested in basic concepts. I would like to ask you all how do you remember to self remember? What are the "alarms" and "reminders" one can use in midst of all identifications of Friday 1pm? The one that I am currently working with is this:
Choose whatever sound is happening repeatedly in your environment(telefone ringing, sound of an elevator, my watch is beeping every hour - so i use this).
Whenever you hearing it without stopping to do what you're doing follow your breathing for 3 inhalation/exhalation cycles, then move your attention to your legs, trying to sense their shape and weight, touching your shoes and pants with your skin, scanning for the tension and holding, then move to your arms, then trunk, then neck and head, sensing the temperature and flow of the air - each without loosing your breath for 3 cycles. Then integrate the whole body. And I the last step is focusing your attention at the chest area to see whats going on in emotional center.
The hardest thing to me is to actually remeber to listen. One can spend a whole day in the office without awarness of a telefone ringing every five minutes:-) What I noticed is that after I have lived with it for a while sometimes my "alarm" brings me into my body and through it into the moment without even a comment in my mind, effortlessly, like Pavlov's dog starts drooling when it sees the light bulb.
Please share your ongoing excersises. There are hundreds of them in the literature but thigs that are coming from reallife experience are much more valuable.
Let us be reminders for each other!
Thank you.
PS pls forgive my clumsy English.

posted in Gurdjieff - 8 replies

Practical Work

2006-05-16T07:05:50Z

If you've done some practical work in the Fourth Way, what is it? With whom or with what material did you work. What was your experience?

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

Meanderings

2006-05-15T12:51:25Z

I find the five fingers quite useful and a tremendous improvement ....but the bi pedal condition is quite precarious! I just think it lacks a certain power and speed and is often a bit uncertain. I have fallen now more than I can count. I dont like the idea of having my head and torso supported by only these two leggs when walking. It's quite uncomfortable. This brain is a new experience altogether! The brain thoughts are murky and distorted at times; although capable of a clarity unmatched when working properly. Can I get a witness!

posted in Gurdjieff - 4 replies

The artist and the audience

2006-05-14T08:03:06Z

For as long as man has been sufficiently conscious to leave written notes, there are those who've been intrigued by activities of consciousness that were outside collective concerns. This interest has been labeled variously as magic, the occult, the mystical, the spiritual, the struggle-to-Awaken, the search-for-Enlightenment, or simply, The Knowledge. The bottom line is, some people have always sought to function in a manner not inherent; it still goes on today, but few of them ever pursue the matter deeply enough to get to the bottom of it. Instead they are satisfied to be students of magic, the occult, awakening and enlightenment, rather than understanding the reality behind such words. There is nothing wrong with this any more than there is anything wrong with preferring to listen to music as opposed to making music. But there is an obvious distinction between being a listener and being an artist, and no purpose is served by denying the difference. Likewise, if you really want to discover and then create your own nonstandard running of consciousness, you need to face the facts about your interest in this affair and not pretend to fool yourself, as is natural for routine consciousness. (to be continued....)

visit http://www.jancox.com to learn more

posted in Gurdjieff - 1 reply

video clip of Gurdjieff in Paris, 1949, the year he died

2006-05-06T06:54:47Z

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2662226021396126308&q=gurdjieff

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

More Disquiet

2006-03-22T05:53:27Z

To be conscious is to be dissatified; this constant neural disquiet is a survival technique: at the non-conscious level, everyone silently accepts this and gives it no particular note; but a few do make note of it--a few always have. There is a sequence of stages that underpins these peoples' history in this matter: At first, they do not like the way life is; if they progress, they move to a stage of not liking themselves; should they move past that point, they reach a third stage where they dislike the way they think about life and themselves. Few venture beyond that third stage, but beyond that is where the whole thing begins.

Every ordinary sane person thinks that the world outside of them (or, outside of their mind, actually) is insane; this is neither true or not true--it is simply one of an infinite number of objectively meaningless concepts natural to consciousness. All you need do to get stuck in this stage is be alive. To a lesser degree, every ordinary sane person also thinks of him or herself as being short of satisfactory, but this notion is entertained in consciousness only for brief moments and under nonroutine conditions. A few sane nonordinary people find their attention regularly focused on their own consciousness, and think of its operations as ill-becoming them individually. Their overall thinking accords sufficiently with the human herd's for them to function adequately therein, but in the privacy of their own head--they don't like it. People at this stage are the ones who become seriously involved in organized activities devoted to discovering another way that consciousness can run. As befits the mind, the activity will have a particular method of achieving the goal, and the participant will become a student of the method. But to go from busy, monkey consciousness to dead-still, snake consciousness, you must move beyond the study of a method to the study of a goal.

The mind must have a map in hand to ever believe that it has started a journey toward the goal. But consciousness will quickly accept a periodic glancing at the map as actual travel. When you start, you cannot SEE the goal; all that you can see is the map--the method you have chosen to use as a vehicle TO the goal. This is how it works for everyone, but you must eventually recognize that no method, discipline, map or teaching is your goal; the reality of the other state of consciousness, and all ideas and talk about it, are two different things: so different, in fact, as to be beyond the widest definition of "different." They are from two different realities.

http://www.jancox.com

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

Portland, Oregon

2006-02-12T19:12:53Z

Does anyone know of a group in Portland, Oregon?

posted in Gurdjieff - 2 replies

Introduction

2006-01-31T11:13:32Z

Hi All,

I thought I would introduce myself. I'm part of a 4th way work group--for the second time in my life. Having said that, I'm only now becoming acquainted with the theory and history of 4th way traditions. I'm joining this group as a way to learn more and share experiences.

Cheers,
Esh Ben Yehoveshah

posted in Gurdjieff - 5 replies

John Pentland Society

2005-12-24T15:52:48Z

The Heirs of Lord Pentland, who headed the Gurdjieff Foundation for many years are making talks of his available through a website.

www.lordjohnpentland.com

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

ouspensky book

2005-12-18T12:46:52Z

Just found a reference on the web to a UK published book "the cosmology of man's possible evolution". i never heard of it before, anyone else here of it or recommend or condemn it?

posted in Gurdjieff - 3 replies

More on Jan

2005-11-14T18:32:39Z

http://www.jancox.com/obit.htm

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

friend monkey

2005-11-10T20:34:45Z

has anyone else read this? written by P.L. Travers (she wrote Mary Poppins and was a long time student of Mr. G.) this is by all accounts the book that most closely ties into "the work"
i found it to be an interesting read with thinly veiled references and thought provoking ideas - and it was easier than beelezbub!

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

members of the gurdjieff foundation?

2005-04-24T21:15:20Z

(i seem to have a knack for looking at moribund tribes...)

any members/lurkers members, or know members of the g.f.?

posted in Gurdjieff - 4 replies

The Enneagram

2005-02-01T01:20:29Z

Has anyone used the ennegram to map processes such as found in Bennetts book The ennegram (eating a meal or a manufacturing process)?

posted in Gurdjieff - 5 replies

Involved in The Work, the fourth way

2005-01-23T04:49:28Z

Is there any folks in this tribe that are in The Work, or are involved with a fourth way school?

posted in Gurdjieff - 3 replies

ennegram & divination

2005-01-23T04:47:28Z

Hi there,

I'm wondering if anyone here has combined tarot and the enneagram and if so how they interpret the spread -- ie. what meanings do they derive from each card position, the triad, and the hexad, etc.

Also... if anyone has any pointers for developing these would be helpful.

thanks,

obi

posted in Gurdjieff - 1 reply

Astral Travel, Meditation, Alchemy, Gnosis, Etc.

2005-01-12T23:09:11Z

Free courses: http://mysticweb.org :)

Peace,
Denny

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies

Subud

2005-01-12T17:01:37Z

...Any thought or reflections?

posted in Gurdjieff - 1 reply

Recommended people to meet?

2004-12-02T06:26:24Z

So, if I were driving from Alaska, to Seattle, Portland, SF, LA, San Diego, Phoenix, Denver, Chicago, Toronto, DC, New York, Boston, Maine... and I were taking two months do do this... and I wanted to stop by and meet some people in the work... anyone have any ideas where I'd start? Recommendations?

--Casey

posted in Gurdjieff - 8 replies

Liebovians??

2004-10-12T17:34:53Z

I studied Gurdjieff with a fantastic teacher named Richard Liebow. Has anyone here studied with him?

posted in Gurdjieff - 3 replies

Fiz Lez Loo and the Karabash

2004-07-17T04:07:48Z

Has anyone out there who is familiar with the teachings of Gurdjieff ever heard of Fiz Lez Loo or the Karabash? Any information or even rumors for that matter would be most appreciated.

posted in Gurdjieff - 1 reply

Swedenborg

2004-05-25T01:53:58Z

Anyone familiar with Emanual Swedenborg?

posted in Gurdjieff - 13 replies

The soul question

2004-05-20T19:57:39Z

So did anyone develope a soul yet?

posted in Gurdjieff - 6 replies

Religion

2004-05-05T20:38:25Z

Has the Gurdjieff teaching turned into a religion yet?

posted in Gurdjieff - 9 replies

Info

2004-04-09T06:15:08Z

I just started reading a bit about the Fourth Way and other G.I. Gurdjieff ideas and would like some elaboration, if anybody is willing to give it.

posted in Gurdjieff - 2 replies

hi

2004-03-02T01:22:01Z

you guys feeling the forth way, so am I...

www.kidwonderful.com

posted in Gurdjieff - 0 replies