In the book "In search for the Miraculous" In the middle of a chapter O discusses the text below a reference to the forces which keep man hypnotically asleep:
"First of all it must be realized that the sleep in which man exists is not normal but hypnotic sleep. Man is hypnotized and this hypnotic state is continually maintained and strengthened in him. One would think that there are forces for whom it is useful and profitable to keep man in a hypnotic state and prevent him from seeing the truth and understanding in his position."
"There is an Eastern tale which speaks about a very rich magician who had a great many sheep. But at the same time this magician was very mean. He did not want to hire shepherds, nor did he want to erect a fence about the pasture where his sheep were grazing. The sheep consequently often wandered into the forest, fell into ravines, and so on, above all they ran away, for they knew the magician wanted their flesh and skins and this they did not like."
"At last the magician found a remedy. He hypnotized his sheep and suggested to them first of all that they were immortal and that no harm was being done to them when they were skinned, that, on the contrary, it would be very good for them and even pleasant; secondly he suggested that the magician was a good master who loved his flock so much that he was ready to do anything in the world for them; and in the third place, he suggested to them that if anything at all were going to happen to them it was not going to happen just then, at any rate not that day, and therefore they had no need to think about it. Further the magician suggested to his sheep that they were not sheep at all; to some of them that they were not sheep at all; to some of them he suggested that they were lions, to others that they were eagles, to others that they were men, and to others that they were magicians."
"And after this all his cares and worries about the sheep came to an end. They never ran away again but quietly awaited the time when the magician would require their flesh and skins."
"This tale is a very good illustration of man's position."
--page 219
There are other writings/authors that discuss a similar "force" attributed to some kind of usurping of our energy through hypnosis by a "higher being" . Castaneda speaks about this in his Don Juan book, in the chapter about the "Mud Shadows" and the flyers. Gnostics have spoken about this entity as the "Archon" .
Historically , there are stories documented in ancient Sumerian and Mesopotamia about the Annunaki; some of which can be read in the work Zacharia Sitchin which potentially can draw
While reading "In Search of the miraculous", I found these paragraphs about the eastern tale In the beginning of a chapter that does not build anything upon what this "Tale" implies. Without going deeply into other "conspiracy theories" which linger on the internet, I have been searching for any further commentary on this idea that seems analogous to O, Castaneda, and Gnostic ideas with out success.
I'd love to hear opinions / references from others in this forum to this statement.
"First of all it must be realized that the sleep in which man exists is not normal but hypnotic sleep. Man is hypnotized and this hypnotic state is continually maintained and strengthened in him. One would think that there are forces for whom it is useful and profitable to keep man in a hypnotic state and prevent him from seeing the truth and understanding in his position."
"There is an Eastern tale which speaks about a very rich magician who had a great many sheep. But at the same time this magician was very mean. He did not want to hire shepherds, nor did he want to erect a fence about the pasture where his sheep were grazing. The sheep consequently often wandered into the forest, fell into ravines, and so on, above all they ran away, for they knew the magician wanted their flesh and skins and this they did not like."
"At last the magician found a remedy. He hypnotized his sheep and suggested to them first of all that they were immortal and that no harm was being done to them when they were skinned, that, on the contrary, it would be very good for them and even pleasant; secondly he suggested that the magician was a good master who loved his flock so much that he was ready to do anything in the world for them; and in the third place, he suggested to them that if anything at all were going to happen to them it was not going to happen just then, at any rate not that day, and therefore they had no need to think about it. Further the magician suggested to his sheep that they were not sheep at all; to some of them that they were not sheep at all; to some of them he suggested that they were lions, to others that they were eagles, to others that they were men, and to others that they were magicians."
"And after this all his cares and worries about the sheep came to an end. They never ran away again but quietly awaited the time when the magician would require their flesh and skins."
"This tale is a very good illustration of man's position."
--page 219
There are other writings/authors that discuss a similar "force" attributed to some kind of usurping of our energy through hypnosis by a "higher being" . Castaneda speaks about this in his Don Juan book, in the chapter about the "Mud Shadows" and the flyers. Gnostics have spoken about this entity as the "Archon" .
Historically , there are stories documented in ancient Sumerian and Mesopotamia about the Annunaki; some of which can be read in the work Zacharia Sitchin which potentially can draw
While reading "In Search of the miraculous", I found these paragraphs about the eastern tale In the beginning of a chapter that does not build anything upon what this "Tale" implies. Without going deeply into other "conspiracy theories" which linger on the internet, I have been searching for any further commentary on this idea that seems analogous to O, Castaneda, and Gnostic ideas with out success.
I'd love to hear opinions / references from others in this forum to this statement.
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Re: Rich Magicians
Tue, May 8, 2007 - 3:11 PMI like the tie in to Castaneda, Gnostic ideas, and the Annunaki.
Okay, perhaps I'm asleep. And, someone has suggested that humans are sheep. And, perhaps you turn around to head away from the cliff that all of the sheep are heading for, and exclaim "Excusez moi!?!" The sheep keep heading for the cliff.
What is true for you now?
Stop the cycle of shame and blame and get out of the traps, let go of the hypnotizing stories.
Forgive ourselves.
Removing layers of the onion, embracing expansive views,
mmphosis
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Re: Rich Magicians
Tue, May 8, 2007 - 4:52 PMWonderful reminder, it's been a couple of years since I gave ISOTM a read (I've read it about five or six times). Thanks for your connecting it to Casteneda and the Gnostics, good food for thought. I'll have to sit with this for awhile.
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Re: Rich Magicians
Tue, May 8, 2007 - 11:21 PMMaybe the secret is that the shepherd is as asleep as the sheep. Without one - there could not be the other.
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Re: Rich Magicians
Wed, May 9, 2007 - 12:45 AMWe believe what we want about ourselves—false impressions of personality and such. In both cases the magician and sheep are selfish and asleep. The magician, regardless of his potential powers, does not use the powers for anything of real worth. The sheep want power beyond what they are capable of, but want it so badly to save them from the apparent suffering that they will act foolishly too and hence go into a deeper sleep than before. The magician gains nothing of substance through his manipulation and the sheep gain nothing by their state of self-inflicted delusion. We feed off each other’s negative behaviors and habits. We float in a cesspool of negativity everyday in life and we don’t even see it—among acquaintances and within ourselves. We are asleep in a brainwashed state letting forces outside ourselves dictate our lives at an unconscious level. We must begin to awake at the state of our own self-inflicted suffering—this is the position I believe O is talking about.
You mention the idea of a “force” by different authors. In the writings of O and Gurdjieff, there are at times mentionings of “efforts” and if a correct effort is put forth, a possible “force” from within has the potential to arise/be created/awakened. I think these are completely different concepts and I don’t think there is much, if any, correlation between the hypnosis you mention in other writings and what O is mentioning on being asleep in this passage.
As mmphosis said “let go of the hypnotizing stories” and I like Charles summary too. -
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Re: Rich Magicians
Thu, May 10, 2007 - 12:31 AMStacey,
For the most part, I agree with your words. We want to hypnotize ourselves into believing that we aren't hypnotized. As long as the sense of ourselves is governed by external circumstances and situations, we will remain fast asleep.
The "force" I mention discussed by O + G, and by the different authors refers to the force that is referred to in the first paragraph:
"Man is hypnotized and this hypnotic state is continually maintained and strengthened in him. One would think that there are forces for whom it is useful and profitable to keep man in a hypnotic state and prevent him from seeing the truth and understanding in his position. "
In my understanding, these words suggest that a "entity/force/being", or Magician, has an aim to maintain a particular kind of hypnotic state in man. While I feel the passage clearly suggests that this hypnosis is deliberate and parasitic, what I think is missing is a discussion of the dynamics of this hypnosis.
We all agree that we are hypnotized. We all agree that it is what keeps us asleep. If we were to understand more about the aim of our "Rich Magicians", how would the knowledge that could be gained from this help us?
In the analogy given of the sheep and the magician, would this knowledge prevent sheep from "acting foolishly too and hence go into a deeper sleep than before" ? If "sheep gain nothing by their state of self-inflicted delusion" , the delusion must be inflicted because of an entirely wrong understanding of the aim of the hypnosis to begin with.
Isn't negativity in everyday life the by-product of hypnosis, not the hypnosis itself? It seems that there is a catalyst which begins the mechanical cycle of perpetual behaviors and habits that we cant see. What would it mean to know about this catalyst?
In the attempt to make specific efforts to awaken, in the truest spirit of the "Sly Man", would it not be of the greatest usefulness to the seeker to arm themselves with this knowledge ?
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Re: Rich Magicians
Thu, May 10, 2007 - 1:44 AMArmanno,
Maybe the magician (whether you want to cloak this word in the garb of a positive of negative concept or maybe just a neutral one) is simply another way of making a reference to god - something other than that which is under our control. That's what people do - such is human nature. The magician and the man are equally hypnotized. And though one appears to be in control and possibly wiser, both are poles within the same unified dynamic. The aim of every person is the same - to do what they do. Could it be any other way? We could possibly perceive our consciousness or understanding as being somewhat more refined, deeper or more rarefied that than that of another - but that perception only comes into play only because of the existence of the other(s).
The distinction between being awake or asleep is simply another classification of sleep, more elegant perhaps, yet based upon mechanically designed perception and favorable genetics (another mechanical process) - yet there is no one of us more awake than another, different maybe - yet mechanically different.
The hypnosis you speak of is an individual being locked into the matrix (not in a sci-fi movie sense), and I don't think any of us are getting out anytime soon. Though, this doesn't mean we can't have fun during our incarceration :)
Negativity as described in this thread is simply energy or waves flowing in their intended and unchangeable direction. If we have the capacity (for whatever reason) to impede the flow of negativity, than that IS the direction. We're not doing something, it is doing us, and to think that awareness of the process or being able to change it or transform it even approaches the realm of possibility... this is simply another form of sleep or imagination - depending on your terminology. This concept might be your catalyst. Yet even identifying it as the catalyst is but the catalyst catalyzing. And arming yourself is catalyzing catalyzing.
And then the fun begins.
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Re: Rich Magicians
Thu, May 10, 2007 - 11:31 PMThank you for your clarification. In regards to the sentence “One would think that there are forces for whom it is useful and profitable to keep man in a hypnotic state and prevent him from seeing the truth and understanding in his position.” Yes, I’m sure there are forces to where it is profitable for man to remain asleep, however, I personally am not concerned with any aims of a magician or the like except to possibly be aware that such an aim has the possibility to exist—I am only concerned with efforts towards hopefully my own awakening.
“Isn't negativity in everyday life the by-product of hypnosis, not the hypnosis itself?” I think negativity is one by-product of being asleep.
“In the attempt to make specific efforts to awaken, in the truest spirit of the "Sly Man", would it not be of the greatest usefulness to the seeker to arm themselves with this knowledge?” I am not personally interested in “arming” myself, just “disarming” myself with bad habits that I have accrued over my life.
It seems that there is a catalyst which begins the mechanical cycle of perpetual behaviors and habits that we cant see. What would it mean to know about this catalyst?
For me, I suppose, the catalyst is somewhat slowly realizing that I don’t have to participate in engaging in the magician’s tricks. Any perpetual behaviors outside of what I can control is of little concern to me.
But don’t take my words too seriously, as I’m sure at this point, I’m asleep too :) -
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Re: Rich Magicians
Sun, May 13, 2007 - 12:04 AMI thought G was quite explicit on the origins...the star systems and heavenly bodies and moon...their influences as laws put us to sleep. So through the refinement of impressions we reduce these laws. So they believed in varied levels of awake and sleep states. -
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Re: Rich Magicians
Sat, May 26, 2007 - 8:20 AMGurdjieff gives the name solioonensius a kind of planetary tension, as a rift in human perception which, at that time, produced what can be called an 'abreaction'. It's almost as if this blast of new perception evoked the first World War and the succession of world wars that ripped through the world in this century. -
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Re: Rich Magicians
Sat, May 26, 2007 - 8:21 AMthats a quote by the way..not mine -
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Re: Rich Magicians
Sat, May 26, 2007 - 8:23 AMhttp://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:QhTgPDozCx8J:www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/a...cd=3&gl=us -
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Re: Rich Magicians
Sat, May 26, 2007 - 8:24 AM
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Re: Rich Magicians
Sun, June 3, 2007 - 12:46 AMRead John Lash's explication of the archons in metahistory.org.