I have now come across references to Mr. G's offspring twice in a single day. In another post on this forum I found the assertion "...Michel de Salzmann (Gurdjieff's son) continued the head the Foundation..." (sic) - Posted by Jolie.
I'd be interested to know where the evidence is to be found for this statement - ie that M. de S. was Gurdjieff's son.
On another site I encountered the phrase "Gurdjieff's children". Perhaps someone would care to enumerate them and possibly even venture to suggest why their existence would have been so well concealed until the invention of the internet.
Or are we perhaps dealing with metaphor here?
I'd be interested to know where the evidence is to be found for this statement - ie that M. de S. was Gurdjieff's son.
On another site I encountered the phrase "Gurdjieff's children". Perhaps someone would care to enumerate them and possibly even venture to suggest why their existence would have been so well concealed until the invention of the internet.
Or are we perhaps dealing with metaphor here?
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Re: "Gurdjieff's offspring?"
Sun, November 19, 2006 - 4:28 PMIn all honesty, it's really no secret that G had children. He was a human being and like most folks, had children. Nothing being concealed or hidden in the fact that he had kids, nothing surprising about it, really.
And yes, I've head the phrase "children" being used metaphorically, particularly "grandchildren", in reference to those of us who study his teaching.
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Re: "Gurdjieff's offspring?"
Mon, November 20, 2006 - 12:51 PMIve heard it mentioned matter-of-factly by a few people in the Foundation, and also heard that Michel looks exactly like Mr. Gurdjieff. I wonder if any photographs could be dug up...maybe from some published book... Guess I could also try geneology.com or something...
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Re: "Gurdjieff's offspring?"
Mon, November 20, 2006 - 12:56 PMHere's a link to an article with a picture. Looks like he passed a couple years ago.
www.gurdjieff.org/msalzmann.htm -
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Re: "Gurdjieff's offspring?"
Mon, November 20, 2006 - 12:58 PMhere's another picture:
www.gurdjieff.org/dushka5.jpg
taken from this article:
www.gurdjieff.org/howarth2.htm -
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Re: "Gurdjieff's offspring?"
Tue, November 21, 2006 - 11:33 PMholy crap! He does looks like him. Thanks for the other pictures many I have never seen in their entirety. -
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Re: "Gurdjieff's offspring?"
Sun, November 26, 2006 - 4:30 AMInteresting. Of course another "open secret" is that the Gurdjieff/Ouspensky fall-out was (reputedly) caused by Gurdjieff's relationship with Ouspensky's wife.
Someone remarks that "of course Gurdjieff had children", but it's surprising that this subject has not arisen more frequently. -
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Unsu...
Re: "Gurdjieff's offspring?"
Mon, November 27, 2006 - 7:07 AMMost likely because there is very little public information on them to make any speculation on.
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Re: "Gurdjieff's offspring?"
Sun, March 4, 2007 - 9:29 PMA book titled Gurdjieff's America has a chart of Gurdjieff's children and some of the names are controversial indeed. i was working with a Gurdjieffian figure who proposed his theory on why Ouspensky left Gurdjieff but years later i realized that the idea you mentioned was the real reason. Hearing of a conversation between Ouspensky and Mouravieff at the site of Gurdjieff's wreck, plus my previous studies led me to this conclusion.
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Re: "Gurdjieff's offspring?"
Fri, March 2, 2007 - 6:46 PMI met Michel years ago at a work weekend in NYC. He looked very much like Gurdjieff and was a very nice person. He passed a few years ago from pancratic cancer, I believe it was. One of the things he said that left quite an impression on me was, 'when you work, work, rest of time, recreation'.
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Re: "Gurdjieff's offspring?"
Sat, March 31, 2007 - 9:48 PMMight want to do a GOOGLE search for Remy Chevalier...claims to be the grandson. I cannot verify this one way or another, but his character and approach to life seem to fit the mold.
