also G's entire concept of 'Work' really seems to be about seeing how dense one can really get and still be Alive. Being Deep is being Dense and being Alive and Awake while being Dense and Deep is about the best thing that we can aim for to make sure that one is really getting down to work and not just floating around.

Before going in deep discussions , it it better to understand Gurdjieff and Kundalini seperatly & then reading and understanding him with Kundalini will be more specific.
OM

k-buffers are like the strings to a curtain. the curtain wont open entirely with out pulling on the strings. You can manipulate the strings to your desire .....on drugs this is more difficult to do. This can be the danger of drugs as well as the wonders of drug use. Everyone has a curtain...it was sewn by you to confront the world as best as you could when you were a child. Basically ...I just want to say....for us....the curtain opens and closes. It does not matter how ornate or beautiful the curtain is....in the material world and for some individuals this is the value of a man. We have moved beyond that. Some do .....some don't.

Reading your post now it seems much more clear to me now the question that i was asking. Gurdjieff's sycronised working of the centres towards a syncrony and thus the gradual nurturing of self-remembering of course relates entirely to the 'raising' of kundalini just like you say, thankyou for offering this insight. i feel much more clear now as to why he seemed and expressed an avid disagreement with the concept of 'kundalini awakening' talked about by the theosophists and tantrics. His concept of work was about doing it in everyday life and using physical awareness, emotional development and self-observation as a way to assure, centrally, the harmonic of living in society and being able to give and receive love and. As such he saw harsh ascetic practices of isolation and a sort of 'violent' kundalini awakening as being a method of psychosis and imbalance because by following such strict practices it decreases the space for appropriate integration. His perspective of of sagely isolation in deserts and mountains was of them being a sure way for someone to go back into their dreams.

Your perspective on the Crowley quote i mentioned now also illuminates something in me that I mentioned with my astrological configuration - that my desire to awaken was and is perhaps centred in the illusion that one can force such a process in the first place whereas it is much more about relaxing such desires and cutivating receptivity - undoing not doing, yin not yang.

Nicely put about the 'photograph' concept also - i see now where the balance must be struck

And ultimately when people talk about schools and so forth it is my stance and belief just like you said that following the contours of your own internal energy is really the path, the way, the truth, and the life, so to speak. I enjoy studying systems and religions but largely this is a hobby and to allow thoughts and intellectualisms about this school or this teacher to disrupt ones own energy observation is foolish at best - I don't believe such things as the 'kundalini' and the 'chakras' even exist, in the sense that people don't realise how much they are conceptualising things - I have my own experience of my 'energetic centres', my 'body', my 'light body', my 'dream body' - but i believe strongly where people go wrong is assuming that when they find it there will ever be a definition on it other than their own. All this said, i enjoy such discussions to cultivate a conceptual sense of unity in order to anchor the territories of my being in direct contact with the energy, light, and life of the universe and the self. Amen

And i agree whole heartedly about the parties - because if we can't laugh and enjoy whilst maintaining our sincerity about this stuff, then what use is it for and what can we Do ? haha ;)

The subtle body can be described as a series of energy complexes that cannot be seen physically but which nevertheless alternative therapists and religious mystics assert does exist. Traditionally, these centres were often described and named according to differing psycho-spiritual systems or illustrated as maps with different levels each connected to the other by various paths or channels. In Cabbalism for example it is known as the Tree of Life, in Buddhism as the Seven Chakras of the Diamond Body. This essay will attempt to provide an alternative perspective on the idea of the subtle body and hopefully shed some light where previously there has been much described and very little truly understood. Although, for the purposes of study, they are usually identified separately in actual fact these various "chakras" or centres constitute an integrated whole that can be expressed or described according to their different functions and processes. Perhaps another way to describe the subtle bodies is to visualise them as fields of electromagnetic energy, particles or waves that pulsate between positive and negative poles in the human body, these poles being essentially the head and feet. Another way is to say they are sheaths or layers, not unlike an onion, that surround the physical body which most people usually refer to as the aura. The behaviour of these electromagnetic fields is not unlike that of pure white light when passed through a prism, that is they separate into seven different colours, vital currents or electromagnetic frequencies.

In effect they are interconnected waves of auric energy that vibrate at different frequencies from the very finest to the most gross. In many systems they are separately drawn or described as levels either ascending or descending which is perhaps hierarchically or hypothetically correct, but in reality incorrect, as the cognition of these centres is dependent on much higher mental processes such as some clairvoyants might be endowed with. Nevertheless one method of classifying them is to divide them into higher and lower levels, another to link them as complementary pairs while some mystics prefer to view them simply as different qualities. In astrology and metaphysics they are equated with a certain colour, zodiac sign, element and portion of the body. For example in Hindu mysticism they are called the head chakra, throat chakra, heart chakra etc. However, what can be said is that the pattern and strength of these oscillating functions or processes will vary from one individual to another dependent largely on their age, gender, spiritual development and karmic evolution. In many systems each of these different functions and processes are also accorded numerous symbolic correspondences and again these esoteric attributes may vary in name and number from one system to another. They might be governed by, or aligned to vital body functions/organs, certain gemstones, geometric shapes, mythical or religious deities and planets. In effect the subtle or spiritual body is created to accompany the physical body, which itself is a manifestation of the male sperm (spirit) fertilising the female egg (matter) that forms the human embryo. At the time of birth the "immortal soul" enters into this temporary vehicle or physical body as a complex of cosmic energies composed of the etheric vibrations of the child's first breath, which forms a pattern of energy that in itself has great karmic significance. We may describe these as primal properties or divine directives in purely abstract terms; firstly as the manifestation of being (the root or seed), the expression of will (reaction), love (feeling), and the quality of perception (intelligence). Each unique quality grows according to how it is fed and nourished and its continued growth will ultimately affect the quality or strength of the others. Expressed simply they are "to be", "to act", "to feel" and "to understand". Although in everyday experience many people may be aware of their personal expression of the first three qualities they may nevertheless fail in the last (ie: wisdom). The expansion of consciousness through a greater understanding of human existence is essentially the aim to which we are all programmed although as human beings we are free to choose our own destiny, we may reject or ignore this and pursue our own personal fate. Essentially, life on earth is a school or training ground or an opportunity for extensive soul growth despite the fact that many people prefer to view it instead as a playground or entertainment centre. Paradoxically, human beings are drawn towards self-indulgence and an innate need to transcend the physicality of their mortal existence. Nevertheless without any formal guidance or training they will inevitably fail to recognise a need or purpose towards pursuing any real spiritual development. The dynamic growth of the soul as a unifying psychic bond is the purpose of many religious or psycho-spiritual systems that emphasise spirituality. Furthermore, the human soul, however poorly or well-developed, is the cohesive force or "glue" that binds together the four basic qualities of human existence that in itself is a manifestation of 4 elements, qualities or spheres of activity.

1. Mental Body (Human Kingdom) Cognitive & Analytical Qualities. (Air-thought)
2. Astral Body (Animal Kingdom) Environmental & instinctive responses. (Fire-intuition)
3. Etheric Body (Plant Kingdom) Transformation & distribution of energy. (Water-feeling)
4. Physical Body (Mineral Kingdom) Acquisition & storage of energy. (Earth-sensation)

When the evolved soul is added to this basic equation it forms a 5th element sometimes referred to in many systems as "Aether" (5-fold Tattva System). The soul needs positive experiences and surroundings, ie "food" in order to grow and without these higher octave foods it will slowly atrophy and stagnate. Stagnation or starvation of the soul inevitably leads to the development of mental, emotional and physical diseases. To fully understand and appreciate the interaction of these "basic bodies" we might assume that each has a functioning or controlling centre or "brain" and for the purposes of this analysis that the etheric and physical body are in such close affinity as to constitute being managed by one vital centre or "brain". The etheric body equates with the human autonomic nervous system that in itself connects the cerebellum, motor cortex, and hypothalamus to other vital human functions such as thinking and feeling. While the physical body equates with the processing of sense impressions such as, taste, smell, touch and sight. The astral body equates with cognitive feeling and the mental body with basic intuitions and thought processes. Therefore thinking, feeling and acting constitute the 3 basic qualities of our being, yet our being itself is dependent on the level or depth of our self-awareness. In turn self-awareness is dependent on the connection between consciousness and the experiences or varied impressions of an evolving soul.
Therefore all human beings possess three vital centres or "brains" that have higher manifestations that work towards integrating cosmic impulses or rays emanating from their transpersonal self down to their material conditions here on earth. In simple terms we are all capable of thinking, feeling and acting and generate these functions either in accord with the dictates of our soul or as a slave to our ego or personality. One should add that the personality is an illusory construct or surrogate for true self-awareness, it has no real existence other than that we might endow it with. It is nurtured and shaped according to our environment, education and upbringing. In effect it is a virtual and extremely vulnerable actor on the stage of life. In evolutionary terms these three "brains" represent the reptilian, the mammalian and hominoid stages of animal development and are linked to the sensitivity of the motor cortex (involuntary action), as well as the qualities of hearing and sight respectively. In Hindu metaphysics they are analogously described as the bija, (Shakti-power of action), the bindhu (Shiva-power of will), and the nada (power of fusion shiva/shakti-understanding). Ignoring out-moded mystical terminology, the Russian mystic G.I. Gurdjieff translated these centres as lower physical, lower feeling and lower mental adding another 3 above a transcendent bridgehead which were simply described as higher physical, higher emotional and higher intellectual centres. These really correspond to the causal (Universal Law), buddhic (Universal Love) and atmic (Universal Wisdom) centres of traditional chakra metaphysics. Alternatively in orthodox religion they may be described as Faith, Hope and Love so one should not get too bogged down with esoteric terminology. In addition most traditional systems might include another centre in this schema to produce a total of seven centres (7-fold Chakra System). The Russian mystic, Gurdjieff maintained that the western mind, was so securely shackled to the ego-consciousness that it was not sufficiently evolved to understand or for that matter access the energy from these higher spiritual centres. Indeed there are in actual fact even more subtle centres inherently connected with the higher being bodies whose mention will merely confuse the student of metaphysics at this stage. These higher spiritual centres (eg: Lalata & Soma) are themselves described in various terms according to the particular classification system employed, for example the Atmic, Buddhic and Higher Self etc. In various scriptures this higher self may be described as Omnipresent, Self-effulgent, Undifferentiated, Transpersonal or simply Divine and embroidered with many other poetic epithets and titles that for earnest and aspiring practitioners merely disguises their true significance and importance. As metaphysically and biologically whatever happens on the lower centres will inevitably be reflected on the higher centres and visa versa.
For example the etheric body will transfer impressions via the nervous system into the endocrine glands, affecting the hormonal system whose chemicals are then transferred into the bloodstream thereby targeting certain body organs and affecting groups of cells. Why this should be possible is that each centre or chakra is linked to glandular activity and thereby the regulation of hormones in the body:

Crown Chakra 1st Ray Pineal Gland - Melatonin & Serotonin.
Third Eye Chakra 2nd Ray Hypothalamus (Pituitary Gland) - Hormonal Regulators of Pineal.
Throat Chakra 3rd Ray Thyroid Gland - Thyroxin.
Heart Chakra 4th Ray Thymus Gland - Thymosin.
Solar Plexus Chakra 5th Ray Endocrine Glands (Pancreas) - Insulin.
Sacral Chakra 6th Ray Reproductive Glands (Prostate/Uterus)- Oestrogen/Testosterone.
Base Chakra 7th Ray Adrenal Glands - Cortisone/Adrenaline.
These vital elements are food (including water), air (breath) and sense impressions (5 senses) through which consciousness is wholly dependent for its continued expression on this material plane. In effect we can simply transpose these vital elements into vital fuels for the body, heart and mind. Consequently, we might therefore translate the 4th kosha as being memory and the 5th kosha as being the higher faculties of cognitive action, feeling and thought. Without spiritual guidance and training most of these higher faculties lie dormant in the majority of people, yet they may be accessed and expressed in another form such as the awe-inspiring gymnastic displays of the athlete, the intuitive and creative potential of an artist, and the innovative and ingenious inventions of the scientist. In each case a particular type of individual works towards perfecting some aspect of their body, heart and mind and in the west this need not necessarily involve a spiritual system or religious discipline but a psychological attitude. In the eastern spiritual systems the use of yoga, meditation and visualisation was developed to answer, or rather fulfil, a particular need so that physical, emotional and intellectual development was aligned with certain spiritual and ethical values. Eastern students of these evolved systems had therefore to fully embrace notions of non-violence, vegetarianism and faith in a supreme being or power. Alongside these basic ideas a neophyte was expected to accept unconditionally the idea or notion of the existence of a supreme God, the soul, its reincarnation through numerous physical bodies and the positive and negative results of personal actions ie karma. The diagram below illustrates the flow of energies between the centres or chakras when the soul reasserts itself from one incarnation to the next at birth, the reorientation of centres during normal life and the separation of the higher triad of centres from the physical body and the 3 lower octave centres at death. The musical term "octave" is used primarily because these centres resonate at different frequencies and like sounds that are inaudible to the human ear, the resonance of these higher centres makes them more subtle and imperceptible to any gross form of conscious awareness. However, it might be worth noting that animals, such as dogs and cats are extremely aware of their existence even though many people actually consider them to be lower forms of life with little or no intelligence. It would seem that the instinctive awareness of animals is so highly tuned and sensitive that they can easily detect these subtle energy fields.

Ordinarily human beings are the collective whole or manifestation of the totality of these four lower kingdoms. Each of the four lower bodies or centres have the potential for additional growth and development each according to how they are "fed" and sustained - each being interdependent on the others for psycho-spiritual fuel. The higher bodies are the totality of what might be called the human soul which is not only the witness (ie; observer) but also the benefactor and participant of human experience. The higher bodies in turn are repositories for these higher octave foods or energies. For example vitamins and minerals obtained from the plant kingdom (seeds & grains) not only feed the physical body but also enhance mental and emotional well-being because they store and transmit energy. Similarly, many gemstones and crystals (mineral kingdom) are used for the purposes of healing because they act as transformers of subtle energy as does the etheric body.

The physical body (Mineral Kingdom) governs shape and relates to one's roots/origins such as home, family and so forth but more importantly it often becomes the repository of illness or disease, where most symptoms manifest, although the cause of the disturbance may be a malfunction of some body higher up the chain of cause and effect. Its role is largely to transform thoughts and feelings into action and monitor response. The physical body is closely linked to the etheric body.

The etheric body (Plant Kingdom) governs the sensation of form or texture and receives and then transforms the collective intelligence of the other subtle bodies and passes it on to the physical body. Unfortunately, the etheric body is not really "intelligent" or sensitive enough to various environmental features to discriminate between good and bad effects. For example it will not be able to detect low levels of radiation or electromagnetic fields created by underground streams, overhead pylons, mobile phones etc. Disturbances of the nervous system are often due to malfunction or contamination of the etheric body.

The astral body (Animal Kingdom) governs colour, rules the emotions/feelings and the ability to respond to the environment in very basic survival mode and therefore also controls sexual reproduction. Where disturbances occur here there is likely to be extreme competitiveness, overtly defensive or aggressive behaviour. The astral body is very often the source of many mental illnesses such as schizophrenia, as a person may react instinctively to impressions or trauma with little or no regard to the consequences. Over-identification or suppression of powerful emotional states (anger/hatred) can cause damage to the personality and inhibit soul-growth. Similarly, preoccupation with fulfilling excessive personal physical desires (lust) can lead to a loss of connection with the soul's true directives.

The mental body (Human Kingdom) governs thought and memory and is the source of will, the soul's guidance system that ensures a human being is following the directives of the Higher Self (Higher Octave Centres). It functions as the basic logic and analytical capacity of our brains and interrelates largely with the archetypal constituents of our personality or ego. The personality is in turn nurtured and developed according to our childhood experiences, education and so forth. Consequently, a good relationship and understanding between the ego and our analytical logic is essential if we are to become well-adjusted adults. During our waking, sleeping, and dreaming states or with meditation the prime directives of the higher self are transmitted as impulses, thought-forms or ideas according to Universal Cosmic Laws down to the mental body. However, these transcendent thought-forms or ideas can often be denied and instead buried deep within the sub-conscious or alternatively they can be acted upon immediately. At some later stage and under certain conditions these denied thought-forms may unexpectedly re-emerge into our conscious mind and demand immediate fulfilment. At these times a person may re-orientate their life-goals or ambitions and make unusual and alternative choices in lifestyle or career. Persistent denial of these divine impulses can result in a fixed or heavily opinionated personal characteristics and usually events occur in these people's lives which will force them to accept and embrace the prime directives of soul-growth and spiritual development.

The Hara Chakra:

Often referred to as the eighth chakra, no mention is made of the Hara chakra in many indexes or manuals on this subject. Traditionally, the Hara chakra is located just alongside or below the solar plexus chakra (manipura) and acts as a physical point of balance within the subtle body. However, throughout life its location is variable, largely because it acts as a monitor of interaction between the other 7 chakras. It also indicates by its position from which chakra an individual is largely emanating from. The majority of people will have a propensity towards one or other of the chakras and this will often define them as one of the "chakra types". A singer for example will draw heavily from their throat chakra (vissudha), a builder/labourer or engineer from their muladhara or solar plexus chakra and so forth. In both examples the hara will occupy a position close to the chakra that they are working from. Problems arise therefore when the hara chakra occupies an inferior or superior position to the heart or solar plexus chakra. The best position for the hara is just above the solar plexus and heart chakra. If it occupies a position in the vissudha, ajna or sahasrara chakra an individual will experience higher octave frequencies which work against their soul development. Similarly, if the hara chakra is located against or alongside the lower chakras (muladhara, svadisthana) then they will be violent or aggressive and if their occupation does not allow full expression for this energy psychological problems will arise. A singer will be quite happy with their hara chakra between their heart and throat chakra, but if it is in a higher or lower position than that then they will suffer from high frequency energies entering that chakra and unable to find natural expression. An artist will work largely from their svadisthana and ajna chakra thereby cultivating creativity and vision. A counsellor or adviser from their heart chakra and spleen chakra, thereby cultivating empathy. An artisan or craftsperson will be working with the minor chakras in the hands and with the solar plexus chakra, thereby cultivating hand-eye co-ordination skills and self-esteem. An inventor or mathematician will be working largely with their sahasrara chakra, thereby cultivating knowledge. The position of the hara also determines the evolutionary pathway chosen or preferred by any type of individual. In diagnosing a patient in Chakra Therapy it is advised that certain basic procedures are undertaken in the diagnostic process. The first of these would be dowsing to locate the position of the Hara chakra, a note should be made of its location/activity and any general re-alignment undertaken depending on type and occupation. Essentially, the hara chakra co-ordinates the relationship of mind (thought) with the body (actions).
Tantric diagrams or charts in Buddhism and Hindu religions often illustrate the vital energy "Kundalini" as travelling through the various centres awakening their individual qualities and transferring them to the various sheaths or subtle bodies. In alchemy the caduceus, a symbol of Hermes is often used to depict or illustrate the function of kundalini, the alternating channels of human breath (systole and diastole) and the seven chakras. Although many yantras (diagrammatic representations) are known to vary, there are usually seven major centres connected by a major central channel (Susumna or central nervous system) and an alternate left (Ida or sympathetic aspect of the autonomic nervous system) and right (Pingala or parasympatheic aspect) channels. These 3 vital currents correspond to the biorhythmic cycles of the intellect, emotions, and actions determined by the first intake of prana and its distribution according to the time of birth then subsequently every 24 hours (approximately 21,600 breaths) at an average rate of 15 breaths per minute. The Susumna channel, being androgynous (Mercury) by nature is 33 days in duration, Ida (feminine/Moon) is 28 days duration and Pingala (masculine/Sun) is 23 days in duration. As confirmation of this phenomena the student is advised to note that the left and right nostrils alternate at various intervals during the day and night. While it could be said that students of parapsychology have done much to convince the sceptics of the value and wisdom of esoteric and metaphysical lore, they are merely evaluating various experimental findings and reiterating that knowledge in a language which is more amenable to the logic of the human mind. Invariably nothing new is discovered but simply repeated or in some cases regurgitated in a completely new set of terms and definitions. They are not concerned so much with raising the human being's conscious perception to paranormal phenomena but rather being able to explain it in purely scientific terms. In order to do this they have created an extensive vocabulary which has become a substitute terminology or logic trap for their trains of thought to run on. For example an OBE (Out-of-Body-Experience) which shamans describe as "flying" is now reduced to a technical term that suggests they have a greater understanding of the theory of astral travel as opposed to the practical mechanics of such an event. With the use of breath control (ie: Pranayama) raw vital energy or prana is visualised passing through and vitalising each chakra in turn responding to the stimulation and conferring, either a mental or psychic state to the sadhaka (ie: practitioner). At each stage, a negative residue of energies is encountered and must be subdued or alleviated, a bit like the resistance when an electrical switch is triggered. The pressure required to activate these centres is given further impetus by the whole structure of the ceremony and mental attitude of the sadhaka during ritual sexual coition (maithuna) with a suitable partner. In the majority of human beings the serpent energy kundalini lies dormant at the root chakra mulhadara and only an etheric shadow of its potential continues to permeate the entire planes of human experience and the 7 chakras, otherwise we would not in any sense experience any reciprocal pleasure or displeasure from our worldly experiences. Some chakra charts also depict a dragon or serpent as a symbol or the dormant energy Kundalini entwined 3 and a half times around the lingam of Shiva, its' mouth blocking the entrance to the Susumna central channel locking in the energy until the moment of release. The Dragon's Seat, a cavernous entrance and the roots of a tree are also associated symbols along with the chirping of crickets, snakes hissing and the cosmic rushing sound of kundalini awakening like waves along the shore.
In Tantra sexual intercourse is viewed as a sacramental rite and when performed correctly is intended to awaken and raise the serpent power from its inert, sleeping condition into its kinetic, active state. Ideally the electric power of kundalini should penetrate into the susumna channel and be guided through the 7 chakras raising the individual's consciousness and conferring an extremely blissful state (samadhi). Nevertheless it should be noted that this takes years of preparation and training on the part of the sadhaka and failing this course kundalini will automatically find a suitable outlet along the ida or pingala currents. However, incidental or accidental awakening of kundalini energy in those who are unprepared for this type of experience can lead to disastrous consequences. For example it has been said that the rare phenomena of spontaneous combustion is due to kundalini awakening in those people who are near death and are physically unable to channel its power. In these particular cases no trace is left of the physical body although the clothing and surrounding objects are left intact. In other less serious cases it is thought to lead to mental imbalances such as schizophrenic states and perhaps severe separation from the body. Although these cases are rare, and often brought on by some physical concussion to the brain, the inappropriate use of anaesthetics, morphine, inhalation of certain chemicals or perhaps drug abuse, particularly with LSD. These bizarre and sometimes unexplainable conditions serve as a warning to those who take a blasé attitude to sexual activity and drug abuse in relation to spiritual training and sublime transcendence.

Scientists and doctors of human anatomy have long described the body in terms of its physical, ie most visceral components. In traditional medicine we have the digestive system, the immune system, the nervous system, the limbic system, reproductive system and so forth. However, the physical body in combination with the subtle body are best described as six interconnected processes working on 5 differing planes ("koshas"). For example there is the cellular body, the neuro-endocrine body, the fluidic or electromagnetic body, the nervous body, the organic body, and the musculo-skeletal body. Finally, there is the atomic body itself which simply dismantles itself at death and is transformed for use in some other theatre of organic life on Earth. The yogis of India similarly perceived the body as 7 different functional processes (chakras) that included, the cellular/tissue system, the fluidic body, the blood circulatory system, the neuro-endocrine body, the nervous system, the organ body all encased in the muscular/skeletal system. The control centre of the human brain was intended by great nature to integrate these various systems, but as a result of ignorance, lack of vital consciousness and evolutionary or environmental factors the average human mind consistently failed leading to mental and physical disease. In yoga the unconscious mind was associated with the autonomic nervous system and the conscious mind with the cerebral/hormonal functioning in the brain. Finally, the supraconscious mind could only be developed and accessed through the practice of Raja Yoga meditation. Amethod no doubt fully employed by Gurdjieff himself even though his pupils were unaware of the fact!

With respect I can most definitely assure you that this ever-present danger exists, perhaps not in yourself of course, but for the vast majority of the uninitiated it most definitely presents a peril to be avoided or overcome. Gurdjief empolys the term: "Terror-of-the-situation" I believe.....:)

Reminds me of a Kung Fu episode from the 70's. Kwai Chang Caine is asked by villagers, who had been tormented by an evil Brujo, what god Kwai Chang follows (after Caine peaceably defeated the Brujo by sitting quielty). Caine answers: LIFE!