Does the Fourth Way Exist

topic posted Thu, May 11, 2006 - 10:57 PM by  commanderx
The question of whether the Work begun by Gurdjieff in context of his teachings about the Fourth Way and the schools associated with it is fundamental for all 'seekers' who find their way to his teachings and then to the remnants of Gurdjieff's influence- the various Gurdjieff Foundations and Institutes, the Fourth Way Groups and Teachers and the countless material available which examines the subject of Gurdjieff's teachings.

Gurdjieff tells us that a Fourth Way School is never without some work of a definite significance, is never without some undertaking around which and in connection with which it can alone exist. What was Gurdjieff's undertaking? He gathered a group of many people scattered over the globe and worked with them to develop higher being bodies- Kesdjan and Martfotai, and to carry on in the future as prepared Helper Instructors which he stated would be required with the publishing of his writings in context of the interest they would generate also in the future. He develeoped a legonomism of words, movements, music, records of meetings and worked to make sure that all would survive into the future for a certain time intact. Gurdjieff himself said that when he had finished his writings in the form that he wished then his work would be over and he could die a contented man.

It is fairly obvious that G's particular school of the fourth way finished upon, or at least a short time after, his death and the completion of his lifes work.

Schools of the fourth way exist for the needs of the work which is being carried out in connection with the proposed undertaking. They never exist by themselves as schools for the purpose of education and instruction.

What has the Work become fifty years later but a school or set of institutions for the purpose of education and instruction. They instruct on the teachings, pass on the various exercises, the movements, the music and Gurdjieff's writings and the "archives of the league" to quote a phrase used before. What is the difference between the Work now and, for example, the various Foundations dedicated to Buddha and so on, except that the Work's inception was only a mere few decades ago

"The work itself of schools of the fourth way can have very many forms
and many meanings. In the midst of the ordinary conditions of life the
only chance a man has of finding a 'way' is in the possibility of
meeting with the beginning of work of this kind. But the chance of
meeting with such work as well as the possibility of profiting by this
chance depends upon many circumstances and conditions."

Imagine a meteor falling in space towards a planet and then hitting it. The effects will be felt for many years even thousands of years later, but the comet only hits once and what it hits it hits directly- all else is after-effects eventually becoming a myth or legend. Gurdjieff was a meteor (and perhaps he came with a group of other meteors), a messenger from above, he made impact with the earth, touched directly all those who were near enough and the rest is the residue of this 'occasion'.

"The quicker a man grasps the aim of the work which is being executed,
the quicker can he become useful to it and the more will he be able to
get from it for himself."

"But no matter what the fundamental aim of the work is, the schools
continue to exist only while this work is going on. When the work is
done the schools close. The people who began the work leave the stage.
Those who have learned from them what was possible to learn and have
reached the possibility of continuing on the way independently begin
in one form or another their own personal work."

And what can they get, and of what does this personal work deal with? What else but the journey towards immortality, the Sacred Martfotai. To be able to become a "meteor" themselves.

"But it happens sometimes that when the school closes a number of
people are left who were round about the work, who saw the outward
aspect of it, and saw the whole of the work in this outward aspect."

"Having no doubts whatever of themselves or in the correctness of
their conclusions and understanding they decide to continue the work.
To continue this work they form new schools, teach people what they
have themselves learned, and give them the same promises that they
themselves received. All this naturally can only be outward imitation.
But when we look back on history it is almost impossible for us to
distinguish where the real ends and where the imitation begins.
Strictly speaking almost everything we know about various kinds of
occult, masonic, and alchemical schools refers to such imitation. We
know practically nothing about real schools excepting the results of
their work and even that only if we are able to distinguish the
results of real work from counterfeits and imitations."

And here we are, the exact description of the future of the Work, fifty years later. All this is Law Conformable,ie. to be expected.

"But such pseudoesoteric systems also play their part in the work and
activities of esoteric circles. Namely, they are the intermediaries
between humanity which is entirely immersed in the materialistic life
and schools which are interested in the education of a certain number
of people, as much for the purposes of their own existences as for the
purposes of the work of a cosmic character which they may be carrying
out. The very idea of esotericism, the idea of initiation, reaches
people in most cases through pseudoesoteric systems and schools; and
if there were not these pseudoesoteric schools the vast majority of
humanity would have no possibility whatever of hearing and learning of
the existence of anything greater than life because the truth in its
pure form would be inaccessible for them. By reason of the many
characteristics of man's being, particularly of the contemporary
being, truth can only come to people in the form of a lie. only in
this form are they able to accept it; only in this form are they able
to digest and assimilate it. Truth undefiled would be, for them,
indigestible food."

So, we come to the only function the Fourth Way Work has at this time and into the future- a Question, a sign towards something perhaps more real. Like A UFO in the sky it points to another reality: or a crop circle. Symbols of Mystery and Search. Like the Pyramids which offer no teaching except the one that says, "I am Here and You are Here, still. You cannot understand me, Know me or create me-- all you can do is realize your nothingness in the face of me."

"Besides, a grain of truth in an unaltered form is sometimes found in
pseudoesoteric movements, in church religions, in occult and
theosophical schools. It may be preserved in their writings, their
rituals, their traditions, their conceptions of the hierarchy, their
dogmas, and their rules."

But what good is a Grain of truth? Who could make use of such a quantity except someone who already Knew a great deal, and how does one come to Know a great deal except through C influence? What is the purpose of this grain if there is C influence except when the C influence has departed or one has returned alone. Gurdjieff teaches that the crystalization of the Higher bodies including Kesdjan can only come through conscious work and that schools are needed for this and and that C influence is needed. Kesdjan must return to life to fullfil the promise of Martfotai, but in the meantime the School has left, hence the requirement for these grains and a legonomism, for these artifacts of rememberance?

" Esoteric schools, that is, not pseudoesoteric schools, which perhaps
exist in some countries of the East, are difficult to find because
they exist there in the guise of ordinary monasteries and temples.
Tibetan monasteries are usually built in the form of four concentric
circles or four concentric courts divided by high walls. Indian
temples, especially those in Southern India, are built on the same
plan but in the form of squares, one contained within the other.
Worshipers usually have access to the first outer court, and
sometimes, as an exception, persons of another religion and Europeans;
access to the second court is for people of a certain caste only or
for those having special permission; access to the third court is only
for persons belonging to the temple; and access to the fourth is only
for Brahmins and priests. Organizations of this kind which with minor
variations, are everywhere in existence, enable esoteric schools to
exist without being recognized. Out of dozens of monasteries one is a
school. But how is it to be recognized? If you get inside it you will
only be inside the first court; to the second court only pupils have
access. But this you do not know, you are told they belong to a
special caste. As regards the third and fourth courts you cannot even
know anything about them. And you can, in fact, observe the same order
in all temples and until you are told you cannot distinguish an
esoteric temple or monastery from an ordinary one."

how many lives are required to enter these Inner temples?

"The idea of initiation. which reaches us through pseudoesoteric
systems, is also transmitted to us in a completely wrong form. The
legends concerning the outward rites of initiation have been created
out of the scraps of information we possess in regard to the ancient
Mysteries. The Mysteries represented a special kind of way in which,
side by side with a difficult and prolonged period of study,
theatrical representations of a special kind were given which depicted
in allegorical forms the whole path of the evolution of man and the
world."


" Transitions from one level of being to another were marked by
ceremonies of presentation of a special kind, that is, initiation. But
a change of being cannot be brought about by any rites. Rites can only
mark an accomplished transition. And it is only in pseudoesoteric
systems in which there is nothing else except these rites, that they
begin to attribute to the rites an independent meaning. It is supposed
that a rite, in being transformed into a sacrament, transmits or
communicates certain forces."
posted by:
commanderx
Australia
  • Re: Does the Fourth Way Exist

    Fri, May 12, 2006 - 6:14 PM
    Very good post.
    Gurdjieff's "school" certainly died with him.
    The "ideas" he presented seem more alive today than ever (even if his metaphors may seem a bit dated).
    • Re: Does the Fourth Way Exist

      Fri, May 12, 2006 - 6:40 PM
      re: "Gurdjieff's "school" certainly died with him. "

      I agree.

      Though the self-work on the head, heart and gut centers, self-observation and refining the various attentions continue in various forms and hybrids of his originating ideas, what seems to be missing is the critical development through the motor reflexes via "the movements". The seminal Polish paratheatre genius Jerzy Grotowski (1934-1999) was influenced by Gurdjieff and has developed a highly disciplined approach of his own that is worth investigating. Though no longer alive, Grotowski's work center in Pontedera Italy continues to thrive under the direction of his next in command, Thomas Richards.

      www.tracingroadsacross.net/even...shtml

      Since 1977, I personally have been commited to the development of asocial group ritual dynamics inspired by Grotowski but following my own trajectory with Zazen standing meditation forms, along with techniques from theatre and dance in a non-performance arena. Our group is called ParaTheatrical ReSearch. Here is a link to our website which contains excerpts from our syllabus, "Towards an Archeology of the Soul" (Vertical Pool, 2003) plus other documents and artifacts.

      www.paratheatrical.com/info.html

      Though we are not a Gurdjieff group per se, our work shows affinity for some of his seed ideas in action.
    • Re: Does the Fourth Way Exist

      Sat, May 13, 2006 - 8:11 AM
      re: "Gurdjieff's "school" certainly died with him. "

      no it didn't.
      • Re: Does the Fourth Way Exist

        Sat, May 13, 2006 - 9:24 AM
        Equilibs,

        You say Gurdjieff's "school" did not die with him.

        I am interested to know more about your position. Is this a belief ? Or a hope or dream ? Or ??
        • Re: Does the Fourth Way Exist

          Sat, May 13, 2006 - 11:47 AM
          thats a statement.
          • Re: Does the Fourth Way Exist

            Sat, May 13, 2006 - 4:32 PM
            Equilibs,

            Well, yes, of course it's a statement.

            I am inquiring into the context of your statement.

            How do you know what you know ?
            • Re: Does the Fourth Way Exist

              Sun, May 14, 2006 - 4:06 AM
              what would you base such a statement apon?

              my personal knowledge is my own...and passing it over here seems irrelevant to me. who ever have a real need to know must seek for a first hand knowledge...i.e. direct experience.

              i wonder what statements like you made are serving? i think that it can be wise of you to wonder about it as well.

              but i can share with you my personal pov about "the work"...
              it is the same work since the dawn of mankind
              humans had and still take part in it according to the need of time (more or less ;)
              and it has always been the same work
              although it may have taken several forms and names.
              i want to say that this "work" is bigger than one person's "establishments"...it is life itself.
              Gurdjieff's school had rooted this "work of life" in the European (and from there to other continents on the globe) society (a tiny part of it ofcoursE) in his time...and he's an important link in a chain (one chain among others) that goes back to the dawn of humanity and continuing in our times...the connection of humanity to Life, to Creation....which is one.

              so far for this post.
              • Ara
                Ara
                offline 0

                Re: Does the Fourth Way Exist

                Thu, December 28, 2006 - 11:47 PM
                Unfortunately, the term 4th Way is misleading, in that people only associate certain ideas and the notion of conscious evolution with Gurdjieff. Gurdjieff took his ideas from those he trained under which were primarily sufi schools of Central Asia and which have been caretakers of an unbroken tradition known as "the Work." The latter, however, has always existed, just in different form whether it was in ancient Egypt, Chaldea, the Kwajagan, and so forth.

                The questions many have raised as to the deadended-ness of Gurdjieff's 4th Way legacy include whether Gurdjieff was actually fully qualified to teach, whether he was an initial emissary sent to "test the waters", or whether the time for such teaching in the West was right. His experiment did not meet with much success in terms of developing people or imparting much beyond interesting ideas that some felt they "understood." Schools do dissolve when a teacher dies, but the Work and knowledge do not. The problem is that students tend to carry on with remnants long after they're no longer useful. That goes for even those which may be termed "sufi" or those that resemble ones that Gurdjieff visited over a century ago. One sees these frameworks without substance in many instances, and of course with the various Gurdjieff offshoots that litter the present day. All of these formulations only perpetuate ideas and their students' own limited understanding who are determined to just "carry on."

                The so called "4th Way" or the Work does exist. It isn't easy to locate those who are familiar with it since they tend to stay out of the spotlight. They must try to work within their own culture and only at times that are in accordance with other prevailing conditions, since there are times when it just isn't possible to "learn". All the elements must be there. Plus, there is also the notion of "the teacher finding the student."

                The symbol of the Work, though, is the enneagram although that is another rendering of the octagon. Both feature the idea of "eight" which points to the "nine" (stands for "inner knowledge" or "ta" in Arabic). The symbol is a type of cross section of man's inner latent energies which must be awakened center by center. It is probably the same sort of map as the kabbalah (originally eight elements before being altered).
                None of those centers or energies, however, can be self-applied. The higher energy of a guide or teacher who is alligned with the Work Tradition is necessary to get the entire process started. Before that, there is often years of work needed, athough individuals are very different in that respect. All genuine teachings are prescribed and tailored for the individual.
                • Re: Does the Fourth Way Exist

                  Sat, January 20, 2007 - 11:24 PM
                  Hm.

                  There are actually seeds of a substantive discussion here.

                  May I advance a radical proposition?

                  Gurdjieff was doing preparatory work. There was a decided mission to shift the focus of "Sarmouni" activity to the West -- see various references by Shah, under one pseudonym or another. The Sarmouni -- "Brotherhood of the BEE" -- workers with the honey of knowledge, the honey that STINGS. They collected techniques of self-transformation from around the world, cross-pollinated & synthesized them. With a particular focus on SUBSTANCES. They held this knowledge in relative secrecy over millenia while the pseudo-Christian pathology rampaged across the planet wiping out all indigenous shamanic knowledge-systems.

                  They foresaw where the momentum of Judaeo-Christian scientistic techno-consumerist culture would lead -- to a huge planet-wide crisis. They saw it was probably hopeless or useless to try to prevent this from happening directly.

                  They knew from long watching how psychedelic substances were and would be used in the West, and what the reaction would be to their reintroduction in a certain manner.

                  They knew that to simply introduce a new wave of entheogenic experimentation by itself would not necessarily have the best consequences.

                  They decided to split the project into seemingly disconnected pieces. The techniques and knowhow had to be dissemated to a certain small part of the West.

                  Later, a separate wave of emissaries would be responsible for "busting out" psychedelics, democratizing them on a large scale. Naturally much of this use would be random, deleterious, unfocused.

                  But the knowledge of Being was out there, and it required to be conjoined with the types of experience and knowledge that can only be accessed through entheogenic voyaging. This phase has not really started yet. But the pieces are all in place.

                  This dialogue is probably part of that process.

                  The people who have been practicing "the Work" for years or decades, and who most revile psychedelics as "useless to the Work," are the ones who should be experimenting with the drugs.

                  The people who have been experimenting with the drugs should give it a break for a while, and learn a few new tricks from the boring old Institutionalized Gurdjieffians.

                  They should get together and have some parties, and figure out

                  WHAT THE HELL TO DO NEXT.

                  My 2 cents.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Does the Fourth Way Exist

                    Sun, January 21, 2007 - 12:14 AM
                    Cinnamon,
                    Interesting post that brings up some great ideas. I'm one of those folks who no longer uses psychedelics and studied with the orthodox Gurdjieffians for quite some time. The only reservation I have regards Idries Shah. He's an okay writer but clearly is nothing but a well read fake, pretending to be something he's not. This isn't always a bad thing (I dig E.J. Gold, but his "fakery" is up-front). There was a great article on Shah in Patterson's Gurdjieff magazine. I'm not a Patterson student, but his magazine is, for the most part, pretty good. Apparently Shah was a fake from the get-go using any and everybody he could.
                    • Re: Does the Fourth Way Exist

                      Sun, January 21, 2007 - 11:33 PM
                      G.I.,
                      May I ask what you dig about EJ Gold?
                      He's certainly out there, and I don't know quite what to make of him. Maybe his "Fakery" is his method of awakening the machine? I really would value your opinion, because he has me stumped!
                      Thanks.
                      • Re: Does the Fourth Way Exist

                        Wed, January 24, 2007 - 11:43 PM
                        Re: "May I ask what you dig. . . . "

                        First and foremonst, his sense of humor. I don't know if this was intentional or not, but the cover of the original "Nimbus" was just so funny that I laughed and almost fell to the floor. Gold dressed up like Gurdjieff, the spin on "Beelzebubs Tales", it all was so damned brilliant to me. The "Secret Talks with G", too. I literally laughed so hard one day thinking how much those books must have pissed off the "true believers" who can't seperate the map from the territory. I like anybody who can get me to laugh so hard that I lose my breath. It's not often that I laugh that hard.

                        I'm not an expert on Gold, don't really know what to make of him. I don't trust anybody who has "disciples", which makes it easy for me to appreciate his writing since I don't have any emotional investment in his work. I've read about six or seven of his books: Joy of Sacrifice, Nimbus and the new version called Creation Story Verbatim, Visions in the Stone, Human Biological Machine, Practical Work on Self, and a few more that I can't recall. I have Life in the Labyrinth but haven't read it.

                        He's got you stumped? Me, too!!!
                    • Re: Does the Fourth Way Exist

                      Wed, January 24, 2007 - 8:28 PM
                      I recently ran across that critique of Shah - the one written by James Moore, right?

                      Caused me to reconsider some of my assumptions. I had always pretty much assumed Shah to be a real deal, perhaps more of a mouthpiece for heavyweights back East, in terms of his compilations of stories. Certainly, from a distance, it's hard to see Shah measuring up to the scale and intensity of Gurdjieff's contributions.

                      However, I do know someone from the Bennett line who spent some time around Shah, and had only good things to say.

                      On the other hand, Tony Blake, who was uber-tight with Bennett, expresses some skepticism.

                      That incident where Shah talked Bennett into giving him the property, then turned around and sold it, seems iconic, from either angle.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Does the Forth Way Exist

                    Sun, January 21, 2007 - 5:26 PM
                    I think I agree with most of what you've written. I have my own responses to the suggestions [the "shoulds"], and a question...

                    > The people who have been experimenting with the drugs should give it a break for a while, and learn a few new tricks from the boring old Institutionalized Gurdjieffians. They should get together and have some parties, and figure out

                    We should stop shoulding on ourselves. Stop self-medicating. Respect and listen to the plants.

                    > Later, a separate wave of emissaries would be responsible for "busting out" psychedelics, democratizing them on a large scale. Naturally much of this use would be random, deleterious, unfocused.

                    Has this already happened?

                    I appreciate you advancing a radical proposition. Keep 'em comin'! :)
                    voyaging entheogenically, experimenting in the mundane,
                    mmphosis

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